Publius Pundit: Have You Ever Seen A Woman Stoned To Death? Archive

Jeb Hallam says:

What's the back story? Was she killed because she wasn't wearing a burqa? Was she killed because she was sunni in a shi'a neighborhood, or vice versa? Was she an international aid worker? Did she kiss a man in public? The woman's pants were pulled down and her face pulped. Was this really a rape cover up by a crazed mob? Was she another Velma Barfield or Susan Smith? Was this an honour killing?

What's your POV? Do you think the stoning was cruel and unusual violation of the rights of man, or an extrajudicial ritually incorrect act, or something else?

I am sorry you didn't trouble yourself to give interesting facts needed context.

Phil says:

Jeb,

The girl is a member of the Yezidi religion, a very small minority in Iraq. Yezidis are ethnically Kurdish, just not Muslims. Du'a Khalil Aswad had run away from her home to stay with her (muslim) Kurdish boyfriend for one night and then returned to her village the next day. Her relatives (uncles I believe) found out and organized the stoning.

Robert Mayer says:

What Phil said is correct. The backstory is explained at GP. And, well, I wouldn't post about it unless I considered it a disgusting act.

alec says:

It's not in but just outside of Mosal. And this video was disturbing and I'm sorry and deeply disturbed that this is reality for woman in some parts of the world.

Joe S. says:

I have seen such films of stonings and have posted about some on the Jihadi Du Jour blog. It is a shame that such cultures are so backward but it is even a worse shame that some religious of these cultures even defend such ruthlessness as righteous acts.

Steve says:

What disgusts me the most may not be the stoning itself, but the fact everyone just stood around and watched.

Liana says:

Disgusting? Should be filed under evil, just pure evil. They stood and watched? Beyond my natural comprehension that seemingly human beings can do that to another. Sadly it is all too common amongst certain folk.

Manuela says:

Rob, I have seen this video before appearing on publius, and I am horrified! The truth is that many such crimes happen in Pakistan, Saudi, Yemen, Morocco generally speaking in Muslim countries/communities. A couple of years ago, Germany witnessed these so called "honour crimes" in fact pure evil in action. No one gets punished, because of the extremely permissive, diabolical Sharia law provisions. We should do more to attract Western attention on such matters. We need to know the truth about Sharia law, and make others aware of it.

RTLM says:

I believe the people who participated in and ogled this barbarism are labeled "Freedom Fighters" by the Left.

This happened on the Street in broad daylight in Mosul - a relatively calm region of Iraq.

Lost souls. I have no pity for them.

Lara Lee says:

here you can see how she is murdered
www.zshare.net/download/2-3gp-6um.html

Stefan says:

The complete movie is even more disturbing. It shows how she is repeatedly hit by big bricks on the head kicked in the stomach.

But still people find the time to cover her private parts. Extremely disturbing to find that people think viewing someones genitals is somehow worse than their pulped face

Bill says:

People object when I compare these Islamofascists to vermin, cockroaches, and plague-carrying rats. I must now apologize to all vermin, cockroaches, and plague-carrying rats for making that comparison, because none of them are anywhere near as vicious as the individuals who did this. The problem is that our language does not even have a word to describe behavior this horrific.

The best I can come up with is "Human by BIRTH, subhuman by CHOICE." (Alternatively, HIDO: Human In DNA Only.) Behavior like stoning people to death is a CHOICE and not a RACE, so the multiculturalists who scream "racism!" at a comment like this can take a running jump.

One Grand Goblin says:

Stone me! Shame these primitives haven't developed a more sophisticated and modern way of mass murder as we have!

Why make a big deal of one ugly murder when we cannot get any (more decent) info on our 'Way of Life' - wholesale massacres all over the civilised world!

Where is the place for the 'enbedded' newsmen when we can still get raw videos posted on the internet?

Surely it is time we bomb these and other innocents back to the Stone Age, eh?!

Jim W says:

Jeb, why do any of those things matter? Is it somehow justified if these thugs kill in the name of honor? These acts are repugnant, as is the tone of your comments.

SANDEEP SINGH says:

The peroson who has killed this lady on the name of the God will see how the
God will treat them in life.For every stone they thrown on the woman they will have to bear for those thousand stones which the God will throw on them.
"I WONDER WHICH RELIGION WHICH GOD ALLOWS US TO KILL OTHER HUMAN BEINGS"
SHAME FOR THE HUMANITY ITS A BIG SHAME

SANDEEP SINGH says:

The peroson who has killed this lady on the name of the God will see how the
God will treat them in life.For every stone they thrown on the woman they will have to bear for those thousand stones which the God will throw on them.
"I WONDER WHICH RELIGION WHICH GOD ALLOWS US TO KILL OTHER HUMAN BEINGS"
SHAME FOR THE HUMANITY ITS A BIG SHAME

sara says:

I did not comprehend before viewing that..what actually happened. I guess I had it sanitized in my mind.. Im dumbfounded.

My heart is broken for that girl, and anyone else who has to live with such fear a crowd of people, possibly even her own family, could turn on them and murder them like this..

Relax Singh says:

Sandeep Singh. India, the filthy shithole you hail from still practice infanticide on a massive scale - what is your take on that?

Also, your women are often forced to get themselves roasted alive on funeral pyres when their nice menfolks kick the bucket. Do we get you to stop singhing "Roast, Roast, I love you!" encouraging this neanderthal practice of tree-swinging apes?

Daily your womenfolk get attacked or murdered for 'honour' - the mere suspicion your guys get of their chattels knocking it off with other men, they are attacked with acid loaded inside lightbulbs scarring them for life. That is if they are not murdered.

Only a few months back, some children were sacrificed by some 'holy' priests with the support of a whole village.

Sure, shame on these rock-throwers, but you should look at the daily practice of so many more of your fellow countrymen - sanctioned murders on top of a whole hosts of other forms of murder on children and women.

The monkey 'god', the elephant 'god', and Guru 'Fuckfart' Nanak sure look the other way when the men indulge in their favourite sport of holy murders!

Omeca says:

This is why we are over there; to stop bullshit like this and to make country's government strong enough to defend against this horrid behavior.

Omeca says:

This is why we are over there; to stop bullshit like this and to make country's government strong enough to defend against this horrid behavior.

Omeca says:

This is why we are over there; to stop bullshit like this and to make country's government strong enough to defend against this horrid behavior.

SkyeBlue says:

In the name of God what is wrong with these people????????????? They stand around screeching like wild animals watching another animal be slaughtered.

And they call us in the West decedant and infidles? As far as I know no young girls are being dragged from their home and stoned in the streets her in the United States.

Nihil says:

Indeed: Again a evidence of men's deep implemented brutality.

But for all these screaming civilized westerners that are now again find a proove of how we are the real humans: That girl was killed because she WAS a muslim, or at least had a relationship with a muslim. She weas killed by HER family members. Muslim councils in Iraq condemned that act. One sunni group even took revenge for that barbaric killing.

One more word for our german visitors: Every year foreigners are killed, beaten and hurt in Germany. 10 years ago a whole turkish family (12 members) were burned alive in their house by a german rassist mob, while other bystanders express symphaty for that. SO please take your biggot and hippocritical arguments and hide behind the curtains to whisper about the foreigners, the uncivilized easteners, the muslims, tzhe jews or who ever....the same for the other boggots here.

tinkan says:

I thought we supposed to embrace other cultures.......

Tracey says:

Does this make them feel like men superior to women to beat them in this way. Does this make them tougher and stronger and feel they are more powerful to attack a woman? Oh, what sweet men they are. When the women are all gone maybe then those men will stone the babies to feel more powerful and in charge. What a bunch of disrespecting jerks. Sadly she was young herself, maybe she did not understand totally what love was all about and did not learn much in her short 17 years and what kind of parents do you call that. Oh so loving and there for their daughter. What a shameful nation they live in there.

enraged says:

Shameful indeed I feel sorry for any woman/girl/child born to such controlling and mind rendering antics to de-humanize a human being. Forced to cook, clean and raise families and being slaves to the men. Then brain washed to believe that it is all Gods will to be this way. Then to live in fear of making a mistake and to be punished like a child in your adult hood for making decisions or having to seek permission of a man to do what you please. Never to be able to think for yourself. Seeking permission even to go out to get some fresh air if you feel you need a walk or anything. Always living under the rule of a man. Not being able to fall in love with whom you wish. Told that love comes after marriage and to be a good wife no matter what. Fearing divorce as this would mean you were a bad wife. Yet men can come and go when they please. This is all the will of their God to make women subserviant to men. hmmmmm Isn't it always funny how it is women who bring disgrace to their religions and not men. What a bunch of heartless brutes. Brutality indeed. What kind of Mother or Father would wish this upon such a young girl and call her disrespectful just for falling in love. It should be wished for her to just find happiness in life and to have a strong future with love and compassion from whom ever she marries. But I guess she never had that love to start even from her family. Shameful indeed. Shame on her parents and those who should be supporting her.

sami says:

these people are animals.

beenthere says:

i share the revulsion of this detestable act. i am glad to be in a christian nation where no one was ever stoned, burned at the stake or any other such reprehensible act in the name of god. i never heard any us official say that we would "save" the middle east from islam. you really think we are fighting a religion? i missed that when i was serving in iraq, along with all the "good things" the leftist media is keeping hidden. how did they get fox to go along with that?

Robert says:

This innocent girl's murder is a sexual act performed by men who are sexually repressed and afraid of the power of women.

These rapist murders have made their god from the image of a woman-hating man.

Jason says:

I believe the people who participated in and ogled this barbarism are labeled "Freedom Fighters" by the Left.

Hmmm... the "Left", you say...

Nikolay says:

"I believe the people who participated in and ogled this barbarism are labeled "Freedom Fighters" by the Left."
The people that participated in this particular act of barbarism are called Freedom Fighters by the Right. These are Kurds, "American best friends". And they are not Muslims.

rob says:

so is it more barbaric that these men have murdered a woman with their bare hands, than that over the last several decades the US has murdered millions from the stratosphere for the crime of being in the wrong place at the wrong time?

lets not forget that the bible advocates stoning, too, and that "civilized" countries, especially the US, have their cherished history of mob killings. here, they call them "lynchings," or "gay bashing."

there's nothing going on in this video that any man isn't cabable of, given the right circumstances.

Tom says:

If you're going to act like that, you should be forced to give back all of your technology. Stoning people? Well, if you want to live like that, you can't have phones, cameras, modern medicine etc.

Monty Python says:

Errrrmmm.... beenthere, Muslims do not burn people on the stake, that was a Christian practice.

And Christians especially during the Crusades boil Muslim babies alive in front of their parents when they refused to convert.

I shan't bore you about the Inquisition, that was no holiday for a lot of innocent people and for a very long period.

Just a little of a load of facts about Christian 'love' to help you through your lack of education and (Christian) smugness.

PBrain says:

Monkeys!

TV Bath says:

I like how there are apologists on here who will bring up the Crusades as an excuse for Muslims who stone teenage girls to death in public and put it on the internet for everyone to see. Of course, there is a big difference, and the apologists know that. It's just an easy "out" for them to not have to condemn this barbarism on a global scale.

Just because Christians did something hundreds of years ago that Muslims are now repeating en masse does not make one or the other right.

Wake up, Rest Of The World. Islamic Sharia Law practitioners are the ones who want to destroy the world, and the world is right to fight them until they are all dead. Sorry.

liberal says:

no, the people on this film are labeled violent religious extremists by "the left" (and yes, i will call some of you racists, as these are not muslims).

violent religious extremism affects ALL religions. it's like when republicans say god told them to bomb iraq:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1586985,00.html

Lorraine Stone says:

It doesn't matter whether she was a rape victim, a criminal, a "runaway bride" or anything else. What matters is that this was a gang murder. Nothing else matters at all; not even a smidgen. This was sheer, unadulterated murder in cold blood. So this is the kind of crap we are "bringing democracy to"? What an obscene waste of noble American blood!

James West says:

there is a human problem which we are collectivly accountible to - hatred - to claim that these perpetrators are not human is the wrong measure. it is most uncomfortable to accept that any person could commit such an atrocity. But it is the truth. Most of the people who have written in here have simply taken the easiest, most comfortable position. That of the superior being, religious fanatic of a different sort - or at least self-rightous american who will lead all civilization to ruin without even having a clue.
also Robert Mayer posted this "have you ever seen a woman stoned to death" - how crude and insensitive. most of the entries are pretty ignorant as well.
J.W.CANADA

mojo says:

And now for today's lesson in What's REALLY Goin' On:
On a fundamental level, when you wipe away the socio-religious so-called-explanations for this atrocity, this is simply the outward expression of the combined sexual frustration of a mob of repressed and angry men. In a culture which begins from DAY ONE to indoctrinate, condition and program its members with shameful, negative emotions to associate with their own reproductive instincts, this sort of behavior is a natural byproduct. It's seen in the west to a lesser extent and can be traced back to Puritans and 'scarlet letter' stories, all the way up to modern-day life where sexually promiscuous women are ostracized and labeled 'sluts'. That word and all of its derivatives and predecessors are among the most despicable, lowly, base, and hate-filled words that can be uttered when used to label a woman and attempt to separate her from the group. It's the exact sort of word that the barbarians seen in this video would employ frequently as a way of demonizing what they perceive as the unobtainable object of their own desires. They secretly lust after the reproductively attractive girl, and feel loss when (in their eyes) she removes her genes from their gene pool and 'tosses-in' with another group. So in an ultimately pointless and destructive display (though immediately effective), they simultaneously vent their frustrations on the girl, setting a strong example for other women in their group. The end result is: as long as these animals are left to terrorize the people, women in that society will not be free to explore their sexuality, be with whom they find attractive, or (most accurately) select for the mate that will produce the best offspring. Instead the weaker, beta males, left unchecked, will DOMINATE the women into unsatisfying relationships and carry on the cycle.

tasa says:

that is the most disgraceful thing that i have ever witnessed it shows thedeep regression in some countrys the person who has posted this video even the person who shot it should feel ashamed of themselves that is sick i cant believe that has even happened that woman was an innocent life people should mind their own buisness well those people will meet god as shall see their punishment !!!!!!!

Faarax Shirwac says:

dah is saaad yoo! jus saaaaaaaaaad! im lucki i aint 4rm no countri wid dah kinda culture! im a muslim and im a somali yet if any of our muslim somalian woman gets down with a whyt guy or even a christian ders nothing wrong with that..we still r happi fo da couple! but that video disgusts me...dont they have an idea that, that is a disgrace to theyr religion/country..???
by the way all commments which are above ma comment r stupid! i dont know why yall r blamin Islam nd the sharia law! in the sharia law god himself said that it is better to forgive buh sum ppl decide not to forgive...by tha way why am i writin about islam..islam gt nothin to do with this apart 4rm tha boy being muslim..has the boy been stoned to death or killed in any other way??? Nooo because in islam it is not a sin to get down with another person 4rm another religion!!! and all of u other people who commented about this video do not blame islam because it is not islam who said stone this girl to death, it is not islam who allowed tha girl to be executed...it was the gurls family and relion or culture or whateva who chose to do this! so dont blame islam jus cuz yall r haterz! daang!

Mali/ muslim chick says:

i agree wiv Faarax Shirwac not jus cuz he a mali 2 but infact wat hes sayin is tru...y blame awl of dis on islam....islam says da person is inoccent until proven guilty so 4 y'all it means u cant jus stone any1 wivout proof witnesses anything...and dese ppl r jus total foolz stonin dat poor chick jus cuz she was in love ALLAH MADE DA FEELIN LOVE u cant blame da gurl wlhi dats saaddd its jus utter foolishness and i wud not accept dat...ISLAM does not accept dat so y'all betta not start hatin on Islam cuz Islam is against torture and dats exactly wat i call dis

Mmmmm says:

Steve says:
What disgusts me the most may not be the stoning itself, but the fact everyone just stood around and watched.

What compelled you to stand around watching it yourself when you already knew what it was?

Brad says:

I am glad to have seen this, not out of amusement, but people need to see shit like this, otherwise they just turn a blind eye and look the other way. This video is truly horrifying and it will haunt me for quite some time.

The fact is, there are some areas in the SHITHOLE that is known as the Middle East which are culturally 500-800 years behind the times.

I don't doubt there are people here in the US who would enjoy committing such a horrible act. Murders happen here all the time. However, the difference is it doesn't happen by GROUPS of wild animals like these rabid maniacs. Never would something like this happen anywhere in the US or anywhere in the west, not in this day and age.

Fucking Middle East Barbarians need to grow up and realize this is the 21st century, not the middle ages. The fact that hundreds of people were involved in this makes me sick for humanity.

Luke says:

I saw the full video on another site.

It amazed me that several of the men keep attempting to cover up her lower body. God forbid anyone catches a glimpse of her underwear, nevermind the fact that she's getting beaten and stoned to death, that's perfectly ok!

Fucking clueless, barbaric morons in the Middle East.

Nico says:

I can't believe some of you people are condemning the people who posted this video!

I for one am glad someone posted it. I am also glad that the asshole who shot it on his cell phone originally posted it.

Don't you people realize, had we not seen this video, nobody would give a damn about it. You'd maybe read a byline in a random news article and forget about it 5 seconds later.

This kind of atrocity needs to be brought to the attention of everyone, and the only way to do that is to show the video, so FUCK all you whiners and your precious sensibilities.

Wake up people, this is the kind of shit that happens in the Middle East - the current armpit of the world. Hopefully one day they will become civilized but the chances are this won't happen anytime soon.

Stray Child says:

Well.. I just say that the video can be horrible by the fact that show a bunch of people doing something wrong, but, had we thought about all the people who is being or was killed by racism, hate and disagreement?, I don't think so, that same disgraces happens in the US, with the kids killing classmates or teachers, people killing themselves for fun to videotape what they did, videotaped fights until death, I think that not only them are crazy, I think that there are a lot of people who don't consider the value of the human life, or... just pass by all the shame things that happens every day... I'm a social being but I'm shamed of being human when things like that happens, and more when still when the people know about it, they continue without any feeling about it, I mean, when we watch on the news the deseases, the hungry people, the murder, etc, we only change the channel or turn off the TV... but.. We are more civilized than they, don't we?...
Regards.

Christin says:

That is CRUEL, nothing but CRUEL! I feel so sorry for all the women that had and have to suffer such violent acts. It's unbelievable for me that there are people in the world who treat others like the ones in this act do. No matter if women are seen there just as "rubbish with no rights", such cruel acts shouldn't be allowed...

chamon charmaine says:

the world would b a better place without that vile 'civilisation'

chamon charmaine says:

the world would b a better place without that vile 'civilisation'

jrod says:

I had my fill of 13 months in combat in Iraq. I am a combat hardened veteran and nothing I saw or did over there prepared me to see the video of this poor woman getting brutalized by these savage, barbaric bastards. There is just no words that could begin to describe my feelings right now. I could not even stand seeing half of that video. These bastards do nothing but hide behind their so called god. These ridiculous people reserve the right to protect their "god" from insults and the like yet they tolerate seeing blood oozing out of their sister laying on the floor struggling to get up. We have too many freedoms in America...there is just too much political correctness in this country...these bastards are among us...they won't waste a chance to to with the U.S. what they have done in the Middle East. They will take a hardline stance against our culture, they will emerge. It will all be accomplished by hiding behind their god and our freedoms of religion. It's time to wake up America!!

Afzaal says:

"Wake up, Rest Of The World. Islamic Sharia Law practitioners are the ones who want to destroy the world, and the world is right to fight them until they are all dead. Sorry."

Can you guys get your facts right in this case, these are not Muslims performing these acts why go after Islam everything something bad happens. Grow up people and get your facts right

AJ says:

"Wake up, Rest Of The World. Islamic Sharia Law practitioners are the ones who want to destroy the world, and the world is right to fight them until they are all dead. Sorry."

Can you guys get your facts right in this case, these are not Muslims performing these acts why go after Islam everything something bad happens. Grow up people and get your facts right you dum asses

AJ says:

"Wake up, Rest Of The World. Islamic Sharia Law practitioners are the ones who want to destroy the world, and the world is right to fight them until they are all dead. Sorry."

Can you guys get your facts right in this case, these are not Muslims performing these acts why go after Islam everything something bad happens. Grow up people and get your facts right you dumb asses

Pilina says:

Cultures are made to be embraced, the traditions, the lifestyles...but "murder" is "murder"...for whatever reason, it is not to be "passed off" as a tradition or part of a lifestyle that is to be accepted. "Eye for an eye", does not constitute taking a young girls life for whatever reason her family or their culture believes it was the right thing to do, to "cleanse" their family. They will have to stand before their God on judgement day. God teaches us to love and FORGIVE. How can you NOT FORGIVE a young girl in love???? That should be a a most honored and cherished part of their life, instead they chose to end a beautiful girls life. Let those WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE!!

jkeuwmark says:

@Bill says:

"People object when I compare these Islamofascists to vermin"

Wow are you really that ignorant of the facts or are you just another one of those "any one from the middle east must be a muslim and there is only one type of muslim"? Try reading the news.
the people in the video are Yezidi who are considered by some muslims, and christians for that matter to be satanists which is quite a stetch. They live in a Kurdish controlled area but before you go condeming all Kurds too the Yezidi don't really consider themsleves Kurdish either. What happened is a disgusting example of humanity but so are you and your ignorant jingoistic veiws disguised as patriotism. Would a video of James Byrd Jr being dragged to death or black and white film of the lynchings from the south brought on such a condemnation of white americans as Baptist hicks whitout reprise. I hope not !

jason says:

@Bill says:

"People object when I compare these Islamofascists to vermin"

Wow are you really that ignorant of the facts or are you just another one of those "any one from the middle east must be a muslim and there is only one type of muslim"? Try reading the news.
the people in the video are Yezidi who are considered by some muslims, and christians for that matter to be satanists which is quite a stetch. They live in a Kurdish controlled area but before you go condeming all Kurds too the Yezidi don't really consider themsleves Kurdish either. What happened is a disgusting example of humanity but so are you and your ignorant jingoistic veiws disguised as patriotism. Would a video of James Byrd Jr being dragged to death or black and white film of the lynchings from the south brought on such a condemnation of white americans as Baptist hicks whitout reprise. I hope not !

AIC says:

Hi all,

I work for a company in the US. I am a very proud Irish American. In my group, I have a Syrian, two Indians, one African American and a African Frenchman. We all get along so well and sometimes I feel that the US might be one of the few Countries in the world that this is possible in. On this post, I see everything from defending these monsters with anti-western junk etc. I think the anit-islam stuff is wrong too. The way I look at it is sexism. Are these men so scared with the world so quickly becoming integrated that someday the women are going to realize that their laws are stupid (religious or not) and that the time for men to dominate women in their unsophisticated culture is over. Stop posting anit-everybody crap and realize that these men are monsters and their time is almost up and they are doing everything they can to hold on to their pathetic ways.

AIC says:

Hi all,

I work for a company in the US. I am a very proud Irish American. In my group, I have a Syrian, two Indians, one African American and a African Frenchman. We all get along so well and sometimes I feel that the US might be one of the few Countries in the world that this is possible in. On this post, I see everything from defending these monsters with anti-western junk etc. I think the anit-islam stuff is wrong too. The way I look at it is sexism. Are these men so scared with the world so quickly becoming integrated that someday the women are going to realize that their laws are stupid (religious or not) and that the time for men to dominate women in their unsophisticated culture is over. Stop posting anit-everybody crap and realize that these men are monsters and their time is almost up and they are doing everything they can to hold on to their pathetic ways.

AIC says:

Hi all,

I work for a company in the US. I am a very proud Irish American. In my group, I have a Syrian, two Indians, one African American and a African Frenchman. We all get along so well and sometimes I feel that the US might be one of the few Countries in the world that this is possible in. On this post, I see everything from defending these monsters with anti-western junk etc. I think the anit-islam stuff is wrong too. The way I look at it is sexism. Are these men so scared with the world so quickly becoming integrated that someday the women are going to realize that their laws are stupid (religious or not) and that the time for men to dominate women in their unsophisticated culture is over. Stop posting anit-everybody crap and realize that these men are monsters and their time is almost up and they are doing everything they can to hold on to their pathetic ways.

AIC says:

Hi all,

I work for a company in the US. I am a very proud Irish American. In my group, I have a Syrian, two Indians, one African American and a African Frenchman. We all get along so well and sometimes I feel that the US might be one of the few Countries in the world that this is possible in. On this post, I see everything from defending these monsters with anti-western junk etc. I think the anit-islam stuff is wrong too. The way I look at it is sexism. Are these men so scared with the world so quickly becoming integrated that someday the women are going to realize that their laws are stupid (religious or not) and that the time for men to dominate women in their unsophisticated culture is over. Stop posting anit-everybody crap and realize that these men are monsters and their time is almost up and they are doing everything they can to hold on to their pathetic ways.

kat says:

some of you idiots aren't reading very well. She was not a sunni or shite! No the family is not freedom fighters, they were of the Kurdish religion, in fact the young girl and her boyfriend were both of the Kurdish group. There is nothing but a bunch of nuts over there! That is what we are sending our troops over there to fight for.......its bullshit!

Nunya says:

further proof that all muslims should be killed.

kepana says:

All in the name of religion! Alas, these very same atrocities were being committed in the U.S. within my lifetime of 50 plus years or so when Black people where being hanged and flayed. This occurred under the guise of religion. Or how about laws that forbade interracial marriages in parts of the U.S. Hmmm...does this all sound familiar?

kepana says:

All in the name of religion! Alas, these very same atrocities were being committed in the U.S. within my lifetime of 50 plus years or so when Black people where being hanged and flayed. This occurred under the guise of religion. Or how about laws that forbade interracial marriages in parts of the U.S. Hmmm...does this all sound familiar?

kepana says:

All in the name of religion! Alas, these very same atrocities were being committed in the U.S. within my lifetime of 50 plus years or so when Black people where being hanged and flayed. This occurred under the guise of religion. Or how about laws that forbade interracial marriages in parts of the U.S. Hmmm...does this all sound familiar?

kepana says:

All in the name of religion! Alas, these very same atrocities were being committed in the U.S. within my lifetime of 50 plus years or so when Black people where being hanged and flayed. This occurred under the guise of religion. Or how about laws that forbade interracial marriages in parts of the U.S. Hmmm...does this all sound familiar?

kepana says:

All in the name of religion! Alas, these very same atrocities were being committed in the U.S. within my lifetime of 50 plus years or so when Black people were being hanged and flayed. This occurred under the guise of religion. Or how about laws that forbade interracial marriages in parts of the U.S. Hmmm...does this all sound familiar?

Kepana L. says:

All in the name of religion! Alas, these very same atrocities were being committed in the U.S. within my lifetime of 50 plus years or so when Black people where being hanged and flayed. This occurred under the guise of religion. Or how about laws that forbade interracial marriages in parts of the U.S. Hmmm...does this all sound familiar?

Kepana L. says:

All in the name of religion! Alas, these very same atrocities were being committed in the U.S. within my lifetime of 50 plus years or so when Black people were being hanged and flayed. This occurred under the guise of religion. Or how about laws that forbade interracial marriages in parts of the U.S. Hmmm...does this all sound familiar?

kepana says:

All in the name of religion! Alas, these very same atrocities were being committed in the U.S. within my lifetime of 50 plus years or so when Black people were being hanged and flayed. This occurred under the guise of religion. Or how about laws that forbade interracial marriages in parts of the U.S. Hmmm...does this all sound familiar?

kepana says:

All in the name of religion! Alas, these very same atrocities were being committed in the U.S. within my lifetime of 50 plus years or so when Black people were being hanged and flayed. This occurred under the guise of religion. Or how about laws that forbade interracial marriages in parts of the U.S. Hmmm...does this all sound familiar?

Salahdinn says:

It was christ who stopped the angry Jewish mob from stonning Mary Magdalin to death! It is an old, and shamefull pratctice, that is inherent more so in tradition than religion!
Who amongst you without sin shall cast the first stone, Christ decried... and the crowd scattered.

As an Arab and a Muslim, I do find that act despicable...and it should be condemned in the strongest means and those who carried it out ought to be pursued and prosecuted. All people, regardless of their race, origin and nationality; are quite capable, and indeed have; committed acts of barbarism on epic scales against eachothers... evil still lurks in the heart of men period! Not because they were born Muslims, Christians, Jews or Bhudists...but just because evil still exists!!!

Has anyone read the story of the four US Marines who taunted a 14 year old Iraqi girl; visciously invaded her house, murdered her entire family and proceeded to rape her?!! And after raping her...these four US Marines decided to murder her as well in the most barbaric way; constantly stapping her with knives and then to cover up their heinous crime burned her body!!! How would you feel if that Iraqi girl was your cousin, or your next door neighbour? You think Alqaeda will ever run out of volunteers?!! Think again; despicable and barbaric acts like these not only taint the entire US Marine corps; but also drive young Iraqis in droves to extremism and Alqaeda.

War is evil and barbaric!

kepana says:

All in the name of religion! Alas, these very same atrocities were being committed in the U.S. within my lifetime of 50 plus years or so when Black people were being hanged and flayed. This occurred under the guise of religion. Or how about laws that forbade interracial marriages in parts of the U.S. Hmmm...does this all sound familiar?

kepana says:

All in the name of religion! Alas, these very same atrocities were being committed in the U.S. within my lifetime of 50 plus years or so when Black people were being hanged and flayed. This occurred under the guise of religion. Or how about laws that forbade interracial marriages in parts of the U.S. Hmmm...does this all sound familiar?

kepana says:

All in the name of religion! Alas, these very same atrocities were being committed in the U.S. within my lifetime of 50 plus years or so when Black people where being hanged and flayed. This occurred under the guise of religion. Or how about laws that forbade interracial marriages in parts of the U.S. Hmmm...does this all sound familiar?

Anti-religion says:

There's one thread going thru all of this and that is that Religion is the root to all bad actions. Wether it's Islam christianity or some other idiotic god that's been a result of some twisted man's fantasy. Too bad there's so many sorry-ass people that actually think there's a god.
You should really get your heads examined.

Anti-religion says:

There's one thread going thru all of this and that is that Religion is the root to all bad actions. Wether it's Islam christianity or some other idiotic god that's been a result of some twisted man's fantasy. Too bad there's so many sorry-ass people that actually think there's a god.
You should really get your heads examined.

Mohamad says:

sick barbaric middle east. You are the asshole of humanity

kepana says:

All in the name of religion! Alas, these very same atrocities were being committed in the U.S. within my lifetime of 50 plus years or so when Black people where being hanged and flayed. This occurred under the guise of religion. Or how about laws that forbade interracial marriages in parts of the U.S. Hmmm...does this all sound familiar?

someone on earth says:

Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing (Luke 23:34)

someone_on_earth says:

Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing (Luke 23:34)

siddhia hutchinson says:

I am sick and so sad to see such a horrible act done in the
name of god. This is about power control and jelousey. May
God take her in his or her arms and carry her to enlightment
and grace. This is not about blacks white yellow or green people
This is today about her life and how horribly she was treated
for falling in love. How sick that mob of men where and
they will return million times over to this act and will be there
vision forever for it there is a saten we saw him.
They are not men thet saten manfesting on earth

siddhia hutchinson says:

I am sick and so sad to see such a horrible act done in the
name of god. This is about power control and jelousey. May
God take her in his or her arms and carry her to enlightment
and grace. This is not about blacks white yellow or green people
This is today about her life and how horribly she was treated
for falling in love. How sick that mob of men where and
they will return million times over to this act and will be there
vision forever for it there is a saten we saw him.
They are not men thet saten manfesting on earth

wake up and smell the coffee says:

What is it about Americans that always makes them use the cliched white on black lynching or race murders, when in fact, at least for the past 50 years, black on white murders/assaults have been far, far more numerous. Check the FBI stats (although they often group hispanics with whites.
Around the time James Byrd was dragged to death, a white 8 year old was dragged to death by blacks and this got no widespread coverage. It is AMAZING how the media ignores black on white murders. Which of course forces one to rely on white-racist murders as a Hate cliche, despite the fact such murders are very rare and rapes even more rare.
Most race murders are black on white as are most rapes. Channon Christian--Chris Newsom murders? Never heard of them? No, of course not. Wake up and educate yourself. The country is not Alabama, 1930.

wake up and smell the coffee says:

What is it about Americans that always makes them use the cliched white on black lynching or race murders, when in fact, at least for the past 50 years, black on white murders/assaults have been far, far more numerous. Check the FBI stats (although they often group hispanics with whites.
Around the time James Byrd was dragged to death, a white 8 year old was dragged to death by blacks and this got no widespread coverage. It is AMAZING how the media ignores black on white murders. Which of course forces one to rely on white-racist murders as a Hate cliche, despite the fact such murders are very rare and rapes even more rare.
Most race murders are black on white as are most rapes. Channon Christian--Chris Newsom murders? Never heard of them? No, of course not. Wake up and educate yourself. The country is not Alabama, 1930.

Robin_Shadowes says:

One Grand Goblin, How can one bomb them back more to the stone age than they already are? Kinda makes me wonder if not even neanderthals and cro magnon were more civilized than these scum bags.

Robin_Shadowes says:

One Grand Goblin, how can we bomb tyem back more to the stone age than they already are? Besides I have a feeling that cro magnon and neanderthals was not as inhuman as these scum bags that treats a poor young girl like that. Sharia law obviously does not have jackshit to do with any kind of justice what-so-ever.

Robin_Shadowes says:

One Grand Goblin, how can we bomb tyem back more to the stone age than they already are? Besides I have a feeling that cro magnon and neanderthals was not as inhuman as these scum bags that treats a poor young girl like that. Sharia law obviously does not have jackshit to do with any kind of justice what-so-ever.

Derek B. says:

Can anyone seriously think of any reason why people like this can be considered 'modern' enough to even possibly run a country?

For fuck's sake, the girl didn't even lose her virginity, she fell in love, and they beat her to death for it.

Yeah, their religions are totally peaceful, and hold no ill will towards those who break their tenets of faith.

Fuck the Middle East, and everyone there.

Would anyone, seriously now, miss them if they were gone?

What have they contributed to the rest of the world in the last few hundred years, besides oil, and craziness?

We don't need them there to get their oil.

Just another reason for me not to give two shits about any of them.

Damn savages.

Why? says:

Multiculturalists say accept, but I say I cannot.

If this is to be accepted as "another culture's view" and to be deemed "respectable" than we as the West have lost our moral ground and our fight for universal freedom.

The best thing that ever happened to this region of the world was European Imperialism, especially under the British Empire. It is a shame that it will be another century before this is realized.

Over 60 years ago, FDR referred to the Nazis as barbarians. I believe that term applies here as well.

Rich says:

This is disgusting and Evil, Little Du'a, please rest in peace.

Rich says:

This is disgusting and Evil, Little Du'a, please rest in peace.

Rich says:

This is disgusting and Evil, Little Du'a, please rest in peace.

Beau says:

Cruel? Indeed. Sick? Even more so. However, name calling, insults and what have you, isn't going to solve the problem, in fact it's this very behavior that leads to despicable acts such as this and the great many prior to this. I wish it was as simple as just pointing the finger at one group of people as some of you seem to think, but as history proves all groups are capable of atrocities such as this. The sad part is that we don't have to look that far back in history to see the evil right here in 'the land of the free', or else
where in the west. As kepana points out, it was within my lifetime that just being of a different race or culture brought you a fate
equally or worse then what that young girl suffer. And being younger didn't bring you safety, case in point, Emmett Till. Is being murdered for supposedly whistling at a white
woman, by so-called Christians, any less disgusting than an 'honor killing' by 'extremist. Yes, some of the very people who took part in such disgusting acts as burning, shooting and lynching blacks, simply for being black are alive today kneeling in some church somewhere asking for forgiveness for something as trivial as yelling at their children but, not for the acts inwhich I speak, I find it also troubling that we bare witness to such and act as, an 'honor killing, perpetrated by "love ones", yet some feel it hard to believe that the holocaust actually took place. The atrocities perpetrated on one group of people by another
are far to great to go into here, but religion in part is at the root of many of them. We all seem to forget that each and every religion I've ever come across were created by man. To my knowledge God has yet to author any book himself. Now this is not to say that I don't believe in God I do, but in organized religion? No. I find most of them deal with separatism and hate. All qualities of man. Maybe John Lennon was onto to something when he asked the questions imagine there's no heaven, no hell, no religion. These things are just rewards man wants to bestow upon himself because it's his nature to want more. Even one life is not enough for man. God is innate, no book, no man, woman or child can get you to him. He's not a pimp who'll give you 75 or so virgins to bomb someplace or somebody. Each and every one of us has the power within ourself to truly be all God design us for and as corny as it sounds, love is the answer. One of the truths I do find in the bible is this, 'how can you love who you have not seen but hate your brother (sister, child, etc.) who you have seen?

Beau says:

Cruel? Indeed. Sick? Even more so. However, name calling, insults and what have you, isn't going to solve the problem, in fact it's this very behavior that leads to despicable acts such as this and the great many prior to this. I wish it was as simple as just pointing the finger at one group of people as some of you seem to think, but as history proves all groups are capable of atrocities such as this. The sad part is that we don't have to look that far back in history to see the evil right here in 'the land of the free', or else
where in the west. As kepana points out, it was within my lifetime that just being of a different race or culture brought you a fate
equally or worse then what that young girl suffer. And being younger didn't bring you safety, case in point, Emmett Till. Is being murdered for supposedly whistling at a white
woman, by so-called Christians, any less disgusting than an 'honor killing' by 'extremist. Yes, some of the very people who took part in such disgusting acts as burning, shooting and lynching blacks, simply for being black are alive today kneeling in some church somewhere asking for forgiveness for something as trivial as yelling at their children but, not for the acts inwhich I speak, I find it also troubling that we bare witness to such and act as, an 'honor killing, perpetrated by "love ones", yet some feel it hard to believe that the holocaust actually took place. The atrocities perpetrated on one group of people by another
are far to great to go into here, but religion in part is at the root of many of them. We all seem to forget that each and every religion I've ever come across were created by man. To my knowledge God has yet to author any book himself. Now this is not to say that I don't believe in God I do, but in organized religion? No. I find most of them deal with separatism and hate. All qualities of man. Maybe John Lennon was onto to something when he asked the questions imagine there's no heaven, no hell, no religion. These things are just rewards man wants to bestow upon himself because it's his nature to want more. Even one life is not enough for man. God is innate, no book, no man, woman or child can get you to him. He's not a pimp who'll give you 75 or so virgins to bomb someplace or somebody. Each and every one of us has the power within ourself to truly be all God design us for and as corny as it sounds, love is the answer. One of the truths I do find in the bible is this, 'how can you love who you have not seen but hate your brother (sister, child, etc.) who you have seen? No,I'm no preacher, hippie or passivist, it's just that in my life experience I've learned that a little compassion goes a long way.

Kansankokonaisuus says:

What makes me more angry is that some people like the the socialdemocrats of the scandinavian countries want to import this kind of cultural habits to Scandinavia - calling that for diversity.

Some people trying to protect our countries from this kind of things are traited as criminals.

Temujin Reddy says:

Hi

every one who is lamenting hinduisam and america you Relax Singh

I donot know why you guys(muslims) start saying americans did that with blacks and Hindus did that with women in yester years sathi practice etc.

First of all no one out here saying that what americans did with blacks is right and sathi practice by hindus is right.

we denounced americans stopped it they had a civil war over it they killed among themselves to save slaves, Hindus punished those who performed sathi and now a days its been 15 years not a single episode of sathi is reported and it is been 50 years since there was only one reported incident of sathi in over all 60 years of indian independence.
so this is what we did about our misdeeds

now tell me what are you doing to get rid of this.

stop justifying these pracices in isalm showing such examples in other religions becuse others have long came out of that atleast legally no one orders honor kiiling like your sharia law.

grow up muslims islam is a cult agree to that.and ry to reform this medival religion into modern religion and first of all stop justying such brutality it will only lead to down fall of your faith

lastly when was the last icident that pakisthan went without a honour killing?

Temujin Reddy says:

yes americans discriminated against blacks hindus in some parts performed sathi but

1) in what way this justifies the killing of a innocent women so you guys are just pointing at us to shut our mouth?

Americans fought among them selves to bring blacks out of slavary many amricans died in civil war, now in usa you cannot say anything to a black if you do that you will end up in jail in no time.

3)sathi practice is long been denounced by even hardcore hindus actually sathi was relatively new only in northan parts of inida actually introduced to safegaurd women from invading muslims.now if you practice sathi you will be hangged.

The problam with muslim killing is you do it as a state polacy and the people who do it are immune to all punishment the presence of security forces show this, thats what is disturbing,

so all youmuslims stop pointing at us and satrt thinking about how to reform your medivial practices and sharia law.

sollipsist says:

Try to forget for a moment how this vid advances or proves your own little theory.

People of all cultures, races, and levels of sophistication can become savages, given the appropriate circumstances. Especially you holier-than-thou folks, so quick to condemn from whatever narrow view you happen to be heartfelt and vehement about right now.

The girl was murdered.

Religion didn't do it. Politics didn't do it. The USA didn't do it. Even sexism didn't do it, when it came right down to it.

Human hands threw the rocks.

Don't you dare think for a second that they couldn't just as well be your hands. No matter who you are, where you live, or what you believe.

How many of you wanted to murder the people responsible? I know I did. That's how I know that I may as well have killed her...because that means that I'm capable of killing for what I believe, if it affects me enough, or at the right time. Like the Yezidi in the vid. Like all of us.

No difference. None. Any protests to the contrary are wishful thinking and/or egotism.

Think about the girl. Think about the crowd. Think about yourself.

Jill says:

Sollipsist is absolutely right. Those of you who are screaming about how awful this is are no better than the men in this video, because you then turn around and proclaim how you want to wipe the entire Middle East off the globe. Hypocrites, all of you. Shame!

Go on and brag about how your righteous American blood means you can do no wrong, because the men who killed this poor girl feel the exact same way. As long as everyone keeps justifying murder, we will never stop bombing the ever-loving shit out of one other. I'm ready for the apocalypse...are you??

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rob says:

I guess it's a sign of how the media report things but the truth is that a group of people from Iraq went to this town, hunted down the males in the video and killed 23 of them.

Someone once said that the Middle East understand US culture a lot more than the US understands theirs.

I am not saying that stoning is right, it isn't, but not everyone thinks that Macdonalds and Wal-Mart are essential for liberty and freedom either. The US invaded a sovereign state, killed it's leader and occupied the country by armed force. Freedom fighters are renamed as 'Insurgents'and the whole logic gets twisted to become more palatable.

If Iraqi troops were cruising downtown LA in armoured personnel carriers...what would you do?

Eric says:

This video, makes me so angry, and thank you for posting it.
This is further proof, if any were needed, of the truth of liberalism; and why I have so little patience for those "I'm ok you're okay" liberals who believe that everyone is just entitled to thier own opinion about everything.
I myself am a liberal, but of more the torch and pitchfork variety; I do not feel that we are wrong when we advocate for greater liberties, in this case feminism. I do not feel that one can continue to argue, after viewing your video, that these people are only doing what they think is right, or that we should not judge them, quite the contrary. We should hate them, and oppose them, and we should not allow ourselves to think that it's okay to do this - ever.

Feminism is right, and it is moral, and that does not change with language, or culture, or just because you move seven thousand miles away and worship a faggot god who hates women as badly as these men do.

Eric says:

This video, makes me so angry, and thank you for posting it.
This is further proof, if any were needed, of the truth of liberalism; and why I have so little patience for those "I'm ok you're okay" liberals who believe that everyone is just entitled to thier own opinion about everything.
I myself am a liberal, but of more the torch and pitchfork variety; I do not feel that we are wrong when we advocate for greater liberties, in this case feminism. I do not feel that one can continue to argue, after viewing your video, that these people are only doing what they think is right, or that we should not judge them, quite the contrary. We should hate them, and oppose them, and we should not allow ourselves to think that it's okay to do this - ever.

Feminism is right, and it is moral, and that does not change with language, or culture, or just because you move seven thousand miles away and worship a faggot god who hates women as badly as these men do.

Now, I am not advocating the vigilantism Rob has refrenced,or trying to change the sharp context of what happened to the war, honor-killings, or islam and its irrational hatred of women. But no matter who else is evil, no matter how they justify this evil, no matter how they ended up punished for this evil, it is still evil.
And we are right to justly oppose it and stand against it.

_aLL3y3zPonM3_ says:

This video is just sickening & proves that it's unfortunate in the 21st century that we still have backward people living in this world..Where is the justice for this young woman?No matter what a person does, regardless of their sex, does not deserve this. All these people that just stood by & did nothing and who threw the rocks should all be put to death themselves by stoning..Sorry, but i think that's what they deserve.In any case, God will give them what they deserve when judgement day comes.But as far as i'm concerned they should do the world a favour & jump off a cliff..We don't need people like this in the world doing & thinking that honor killings are right..

aLL3y3zPonM3 says:

This video is just sickening & proves that it's unfortunate in the 21st century that we still have backward people living in this world..Where is the justice for this young woman?No matter what a person does, regardless of their sex, does not deserve this. All these people that just stood by & did nothing and who threw the rocks should all be put to death themselves by stoning..Sorry, but i think that's what they deserve.In any case, God will give them what they deserve when judgement day comes.But as far as i'm concerned they should do the world a favour & jump off a cliff..We don't need people like this in the world doing & thinking that honor killings are right..

ThinkTank says:

First and foremost i would pray for the girl, may God grant her heaven!

Secondly, I observed a not so strange thing when I read the posts. Very few people got to the core of the Issue. Its not about Islam, nor Christianity, Not about Whites nor Blacks, Not about East nor west.
Why cant we think beyond these boundaries? Its all about Ignorance!

Its such a pity to see the blame game. Its easy to speak a hundred words and not do a thing about such things.
We all are Unique and we all must raise above these petty differences we have and do good for in the end, all that matters is what we do!
I am muslim and my religion doesnt teach me to kill instead to love everyone, if not for who they are atleast for the mere fact that God loves them. God says Forgive one another and I shall forgive you your sins.

Lets all pray for this world and work to make this world a better place to live!
One minute is all it takes for you to pray and forgive. We spend too much time hating others, is that the best we can do?
Peace!

Dave UK says:

cannot believe some of you people still believe in god, adam & eve and the like.

Have you never heard of evolution ? or is that missed out of your curriculum ?

Stoning is dispicable, but I dont see many objections to the US dropping 2 atom bombs on Japan.. cant really get more indescriminate than that, can you.

Time for the world to wake up and sort out their own mess. The war in Iraq has nothing to do with liberating the Kurds etc and everything to do with oil.

Time to educate people around the world.

Neo says:

one word sums up what they need to do...EVOLVE

these people are nothing but a virus in shoes

wahbi says:

Hallucinating!!! and say Islam is intolerance !
fanatism belongs to humankind not to a special believe.yezidi themeselves accuse islam of intolerance .

yibah says:

I guess, a lot of you guys will find the bombings by AlKaida and the death of hundreds of those Yezidi an appropriate punishment for their behavior.

Reality says:

People that are so retarded that they would stone an innocent girl, are so undeserving of living on this planet it doesn't even bear discussion.

Every single person involved should be put to death. Including the bystanders that didn't stop it.

This kind of sanctioned insanity can no longer be tolerated.

imagine a world without religion.

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Joseph Ubaldo says:

Witch-hunting, burning at he stakes, Inquisition sending people to gallows, English-style of disemboweling Scottish/Irish rebels,what else. Of course they happened hundreds of years ago. Stoning to death and beheading in Riyadh is also revolting. Hanging of a Catholic bishop in Pakistan may have unsettled some people but not all. Let us therefore raise our children as Christians rather than allow them to venture into Islam. But does it really matter if both "beliefs" condone barbaric killings? What are we afraid of? Islam is openly taught and preached in non-Muslim countries but never you will see a Christian teaching his religion in Riyadh.

trg says:

The inherent irony is those asserting that these rock-throwing murderers are of a "backward" culture that needs to "evolve" are themselves (as are most of us 'round here) paying taxes for some of the most extensive and brutal institutionalized violence exercised by _any_ human culture. How evolved an activity is, say, the massacre of Fallujah by the American military? The only overt difference between this stoning and an air strike (American, Turkish, whatever) is the highly complex planning, infrastructure development, and intellectual posturing that goes into contemporary military violence. Nobody's given up murder and wholesale slaughter yet, just repackaged it. Is that "forward" culture?

Victoria says:

Just so you know, I agree with almost all of the comments, I just felt the need to add mine. After stumbling across this site accidentally, I decided to do a bit of research... unfortunately it is not just woman who get stoned, but it is men as well. Depending on the "crime" committed (usually adultery) will say what the punishment is. Pre marital sex is usually 100 lashes. Sex involving married people with others other than their spouses is death by stoning. Then of course there are the ones that are not ruled by the courts, which I am assuming this one was not. My point in all of this is that it's not just the poor woman, but men also who must endure this cruel and unusual punishment.

Victoria says:

Just so you know, I agree with almost all of the comments, I just felt the need to add mine. After stumbling across this site accidentally, I decided to do a bit of research... unfortunately it is not just woman who get stoned, but it is men as well. Depending on the "crime" committed (usually adultery) will say what the punishment is. Pre marital sex is usually 100 lashes. Sex involving married people with others other than their spouses is death by stoning. Then of course there are the ones that are not ruled by the courts, which I am assuming this one was not. My point in all of this is that it's not just the poor woman, but men also who must endure this cruel and unusual punishment.

etymophile says:

Never ceases to amaze me that many victims are attacked by packs, not individuals. I wonder if such cowards (who do this sort of thing) realize just how weak and pathetic they reveal themselves to be. The afterlife will sort them out, indeed. I should not want a thousandth of what they will receive.