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Photos from the Estonia Riots

Filed under: Russia

tibla5.jpg

When the Estonian government decided to move a monument to Soviet soldiers, whom they view as occupiers and rapists, from a central square in the capital of Tallinn to another location, a hoard of Russian nationalists including Nashi youth cult members descended to destabilize the country (just as Russia has sought to do in Georgia, Ukraine and Moldova). Their protest immediately turned violent and ended in an obscene display of looting spanning several days, laying bare the true nature of the protesters' committment to the fate of the Soviet soldiers. The Kremlin took the side of the protesters, and some officials even called for Russia to break diplomatic relations. Once again, we see Russia shoot itself in the face; nothing could more conclusively show the horror of the neo-Soviet regime in Moscow than its renewed imperial designs on Estonia, full of neo-Soviet hypocrisy. The Kremlin is free to crush peaceful anti-Putin protests, but believes pro-Russian protests in Estonia can't be suppressed even when they are criminal in nature. It complains when foreigners support Putin's opposition, but has no problem sending Nashi to Estonia. Photos from an Estonian blog after the jump.

tibla2.jpg

He's doing to Estonians what the Soviet Army did.
And Russia is surprised Estonia doesn't want to honor them!

tibla4.jpg

Her argument in favor of showing respect to Russians
is utterly compelling, isn't it?

tibla13.jpg

Another Russian victim of Estonian oppression.

tibla6.jpg

A Russian government official called the Estonian authorities
"inhuman" for trying to deny this patriotic lad his God-given right
to free cognac.

tibla26.jpg

He seems to wish it was the leg of an Estonian.

tibla9.jpg

This fellow has obviously studied the teachings of Gandhi and King.

tibla16.jpg

His patriotic love for the Soviet soldiers is so powerful, one is moved to tears.

tibla21.jpg

The Red Army did this to Estonia in the 1940s. Everything old is new again.

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Comments


armchair pessimist says:

We begin to see the faint outlines of a very dirty grand bargain between the West and Russia. The price of prying Russia away from China and Islam and mischief is the restoration of her lost real estate. This time it won't be sealed with Russian tanks, but with Mont Blac pens, Economic cooperation zones, etc,etc. I'd make that deal, although everytime I looked in the mirror, I'd think of those brave little nations that got f-ed over in 1945 and will get f-ed over once again, and feel like puking.

Shit, what a lousy world.


elmer says:

I don't think Russia has the resources to continue to try and prop up Islam, or to try to take over China, notwithstanding their oil revenues. (Their economy is worse than Mexico's. You can look it up.)

And all those countries that have now tasted freedom will not want to go back to Russia.

Estonia certainly does not.

Russia does not allow "riots" at home.

But the Russian Duma encourages riots in Estonia.

I don't think that type of foreign policy will work.


Amphipolis says:

Russia is a dying nation politically, economically, militarily, and demographically. These disturbances seem to me like death throes.


Markk says:

"Everything old is new again."

How depressing.


Russ says:

Unfortunately, I suspect Amphipolis to be right. A sub-50s lifespan in the 21st century is simply a tragedy.


Kokoito says:

A horribly perjudgemental post. Things that are happening in Estonia don't really have any relation to Russia.

The author neglected to point out, that the lootings and the violence erupted, when the police and SWAT began pushing people away, from the monument and using tear gas and other forms of crowd control. Most of the crowd were young people, some of them young teenagers and old folks. The SWAT had clubs and rifles, the crowd had flowers. Democratic, isn't it?

The russian-speaking (note, that not all of them are ethnic-russians) minority have a overwhelming notion of being "second-class" citizens, and the tragedy is, that not Estonia, nor Russia care about them. The government's actions against the monument (oh, the author also neglected to point out, that the monument, actually was a tomb-stone of sorts to a grave of soldiers under it), that had *no formal underlying decision*, was started during the night, with no public statement.

Also, the author neglected to point out, that the polls showed that 49% of the populace were against the movement of the monument, whereas 37% were for.

So, the violence in Tallinn is a result of a decade long policy of ignoring a huge portion of the populace. This was the final straw for the people, who were tired of being ignored by the government, which they elect.

So the russian-conspiracy is just a load of horse c***. Russia actually could just lay back and see, how the incompetent government does everything for them.


Kokoito says:

Oh, and I just noticed, that the photo files on the blog are named like "tiblad5.jpg", "tiblad6.jpg", etc. I'd just like to point, that in Estonian "tibla" is a very offensive slur for a russian or a russian-speaking person, with "tiblad" being the plural form.

I'm not trying in any way to redeem the violence, I'd just like to say, that it is the result of the government actions. It's not the people's fault, they feel opressed and second-class.

Also, just today, the news were, that about 350 policemen resigned in Estonia, saying that the don't want to be out on the streets beating up teenagers.


Kokoito says:

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1615724,00.html

Here is a nice article, explaining what happened in Tallinn and why.


ann says:

jesus Christ!how ca you comment on sth that you ahve no cluea about; the comment that Estonian police is resgning came from RUSSIAN news- service. its far from truth as well as the surpression of russians: they are and were given the chance to go back to Russia, but they juts dont want to live capitalism for communism.
and don´t you dear to tell that swat did something "bad" they should have even done more.if you see the pictures of rioting crowd: they aren´t exacly walking around with flowers. if you haven´t seen them in action, you cand say that police was too rush. they were trowing rocks and trash cans around and braking everything that came to their way...what should the police have done: warn them to be polite???


La Russophobe says:

KOKOITO:

You are a really amazing fellow! You don't document a single one of your "facts" with a link to published material and you don't say a single word against the protesters, blaming all on the Estonian government, yet you claim MY post is one-sided and inaccurate. Talking to you is like talking to a neo-Soviet brick wall. Photographs don't lie, my friend (or should I say my enemy). Your attempt to argue around them with empty words is just plain silly.

Your statement "I'm not trying in any way to redeem the violence" is utterly bizarre. That's EXACTLY what you are doing, rationalizing the violence and CRIMINAL THEFT and ignoring the fact that THE RUSSIAN YOUTH CULT NASHI directly participated in these events.

You sound just like a Soviet, living in a world of illusion right up until the moment doing so destroys you.

FACTS:

(1) The protesters were almost all Russians. "In two nights of chaos in Tallinn an estimated 2,000 rioters, mainly young ethnic Russians, looted shops, smashed property and hurled stones and bottles at police."

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/europe/news/article_1297973.php/Estonian_police_1000_detained_during_monument_riots

(2) Estonians were brutalized under Soviet rule. "During the years of Soviet occupation after World War II, tens of thousands of Estonians were killed. And they say their country was effectively colonised with many Russians being brought in as workers and military personnel."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6602171.stm

Ethnic Estonians overwhelmingly support moving the monument, even Russian sources admit this. The idea of allowing ethnic Russians, many of whom are not even citizens and do not speak the language, to influence Estonian decisions given this legacy is barbaric and insane. If you are suggesting that you have the best interests of the ethnic Estonians at heart, I call you a liar.

(3) Russia can hardly be heard to complain about how other countries treat protesters after it brutalized "Other Russia." Where were your words of criticism for Russia when that happened? Are you a blind Russian nationalist?

(4) You totally ignore the fact that Russian nationlists FROM RUSSIA participated in the rally. Click here:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070427/wl_afp/russiaestoniapolitics

to see the masked face of a member of the "Young Guards of United Russia" group attacking the Estonian Embassy in Moscow, which was forced to shut its doors. So much for a Russian example of civility!

(5) YOUR OWN ARTICLE states: "About 1,500 protesters rallied peacefully for hours Thursday until a small group tried to break through a police line protecting the monument." The PROTESTERS caused the violence, not the authorities. Liar. Did you even read your own article before you quoted it?

In short, you're fooling nobody but yourself.


est says:

Kokoito, you are so full of crap I even don't know where to begin... Actually there's no point of going over this agian. There are plenty of honest news and opinions around the world.

Let me just mention that the word "tibla" is no longer a synonym for Russian. Tibla is Homo Sovieticus, Liberator, Bringer of Culture or simply put - scum. And that's excactly what you see when you look at these pictures - scum.
Estonians and Estonian Russian will never ever allow Soviet scum take control.


Kokoito says:

2 Ann:

I was on the streets of Tallinn, when the riots started. Then I left.

The thing I'm saying, is, that there shouldn't have been any riots in the first place. The government should have "marketed" the movement idea better, so the russian-speaking minority wouldn't feel as if the decision is shoved down their throats. I am sure, if the government just sent the message to the russian-speaking people "Hey! We care about you lot", there would be a lot less young people crying "Russia! Russia!" on the streets. One of the tragedies of these people, is that they relate themselves to modern day Russia, whereas Kremlin sees them only as a reason to exert diplomatic pressure on Estonia. One of the reasons for this, is that they don't feel, that they are needed in Estonia.


Offcourse, the police had to act. But, Estonia is a jural state, which means, among other things, that any direct action from the state or the administration should be the most subtle effective action possible. For example:

(a) you could push the crowd to an issolated spot with those plastic shields, then put them on a bus and take them home and give them an administrative order to stay put.

or

(b) you could just charge them and maim them with clubs.

So you get the idea: since (a) is the most subtle, then this is the legal way to act, not (b). This is not my personal opinion, by the way. This is what you get taught in the law school.

Now, take a look at this video here (Kim, pay attention here):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fdudZQdOrhg

As you can clearly see, the kids there are just hanging around and, as I can judge, are under 18. Later you could see, that an aproximately 15 years old boy is being persecuted -- something the police can't legally do. This should NOT happen in a jural, democratic country. This is a BAD THING, that the police and the government allowed to happen, regardless of nationality, since it is just plain criminal, according to Estonian Law. Regardless of the goals, our government should not do anything against the law.

To my mind, the government should be held responsible in the first place, since they didn't plan the project well, couldn't hold the situation under control and allowed some highly illegal actions from the police to happen.

As for your other statement: as far as I know most of the russian young people in Estonia, were born there, so why should have they left their own country?


armchair pessimist says:

Elmer,

No, I don't think Russia has either. It does have the capacity to harm the West out of spitefulness, but in doing so, it will destroy itself too. This will be because Islam and China will someday carve it up between them.

But that need not happen.

If Russia would use its brains instead of its boot, it'd see that long term it needs a powerful West to help it against Islam and China.

Equally, if the West could attach a strong and great Russia to its side, economically and to some extent politically, it could end its suicidal involvement in the Islamic world for the sake of the oil.

This is hardly blue-sky talk. The EU nations, the original ones anyway, have recently discovered just how much they rely on Russian energy. Do you think they'd stand up to the Bear on behalf of Estonia?

Don't you think it more likely that, under much boring talk of common-trade zones, pipeline arrangements, yadda, yadda, yadda, the New Europe will be tacitly acknowledged as a Russian sphere of influence? The Berlin Moscow Pact redux.

Speaking as a selfish American who is more worried about his own country, this would be a good thing, although morally revolting.


elmer says:

kokoito has arrived to sing the Russian lament - "oh, poor, poor Russians, everyone is picking on us, they make us feel like second-class citizens".

And to advocate for the russkie God-given right to steal and look cognac (that's noted in the pictures above).

kokoito is using a handbook. And it's a bunch of cow pies. (For you russkies - that means what comes out of the butt end of a cow.)

this same rhetoric appears in web sites in every country.

The Russian Duma is cheering on the russkies in Estonia. But look at the tactics that the Russkies use - against their own people - in Russia.

And the people in Russia are not trying to loot cognac, they're trying to exerice freedom of speech and freedom of assembly.

But the storm troopers in Russia don't like free speech, or political opposition.

What is really at stake is that the Russians in every former Soviet bloc country want to continue to feel superior - just like under the Sovok union. They don't want to peacably integrate themselves into every former soviet-bloc country where they find themselves (due to massive resettlements by the sovok union) - they want to rebuild a russkie empire.

La Russophobe has it exactly right.


armchair - I generally agree with you.

But Russia is a snake. Always has been.

Searching for alternatives to oil and gas is a good thing for several reasons.


Kokoito says:

2 La Russophobe

First of all, stop with the "Soviet" labeling, please. Because the result is quite the opposite: you remind me of an over-zealous communist party member.

Secondly, don't call people "liars" only because their interpretation or the view on things differs from yours, since this behaviour is also so damn "sovok".

And yes, I didn't really criticize the protesters, since you've already done that in extent, so why repeat, what is essentialy true and already said?

Alright, now to the points:

(1) Well, it's kind of obvious, that the protesters were russians or russian-speakers, since it is "their" monument. Sadly, they degraded the protest to riots and violence. As I said before, I do not redeem the violence that happened, and to my mind, what I say, is not utterly bizzare, since by that, I ask myself the questions, nobody seems to ask: "Why did they start to riot? Why now? Why only russian-speakers? What drives them to be like that?" It is easy just label them as "neo-soviet animals", but, to my mind, it is just because of a vast sociollogical problem, that needs to be solved.

(2) Well, most of my ancestors were brutalized, sent to Siberia and killed during the Soviet rule. I loathe Stalin and his minions. However, holding modern day average russians responsible for that is weak. So I don't think that past repressions could justify any actions against modern day people. I think, that Russia should just anknowledge the wrongs done by the USSR and get it over with for all the countries.

The thing with citizenship is, to my opinion, highly formal and debatable, since the situation in Estonia is complicated. Anyhow, this is not the point of this discussion, as I understand.

(3) Eh? I don't know you, woman. I'm no journalist. So, why should my opinion be known to you in advance? If you must know, I think what happened to Khodorkovsky and Politkovskaya (for example) is just plain sick.

(4) Russian nationalists FROM RUSSIA!... Sounds like "Space mutants FROM OUTER SPACE!". I'm sorry, I couldn't help it. :) It is not widely publized here, in Estonia, so I didn't think the problem severe. I thought it was about 5-10 people at best.

As for what is happening in Russia -- I don't really care. It is Estonia, I am concerned with.

(5) Ofcourse, the people tried to break the police line. You must understand, that the problem is, that the russian-speakers there see the monument more as a grave to their fore-fathers, who died in the war. Would you stand idly, when I tried to move your relatives grave, saying that it is a symbol of opression? I exaggerate, but I think you get the point. The reason for the Bronze Soldier Unrest is because of the different interpretation of one object and the unwillingness of people to talk and listen to each other, without attacking or bashing each other.


Kokoito says:

Elmer,

I am not russian, nor do I wish to be taken for one. I do not live in Russia and do not associate myself with it. One reason for the lament, you've mentioned, is precicely the biggotry, that is your last post. I'm sorry to say this, but I can't understand it otherwise.

All I'm saying, is that some two thousand people don't go and riot for two nights like hell, just for kicks -- something has driven them to do so.


La Russophobe says:

KOKOITO:

How dare you lecture me how to speak and what to pay attention to on my own blog? If you don't like how I speak, get lost and read some other blog. You will not be missed. Write your own blog and see how many people pay attention to your inane yammerings.

Once again, absolutely no documention of your so-called facts. Just a stream of neo-Soviet gibberish. It's so sad that blind Russian nationalists can't learn anything from the past and must repeat their mistakes until they are destroyed by them.


elmer says:

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

kokoito shows up with his bag of lies:

"I am not Russian" (I just want to support Russians who riot because they fervently believe that a Soviet monument in Estonia for 14 or so soldiers, number and count unknown because sovoks did not care about their soldiers, should not be moved to a cemetery)


"My family was persecuted by Stalin and I hate Stalin, don't hold modern-day Russians responsible" (That's another good - this is a variant of the Stalin was not Russian routine, which I've seen before. Russia views itself as the official successor of the Sovok Union. While distancing themselves from Stalin on web site - only because he was Georgian - Russians parade around Ukraine and other former Soviet bloc countries with icons of STALIN on their necks. Why? Because of "stabilnost" - that's right, beat the people, kill them, but above all there must be a strong man for Russians, and for Russian national glory, who will impose a brutal law and order. What a bunch of screwed up miserable pukes.)


"The rioters in Estonia are russian-speakers, not Russian." (Another miserably schizoid puke bag of double-talk. The reason they speak Russian in Estonia is because Russian was imposed on Estonians by the Soviets, and because Russians were re-settled there, and Estonians were moved around to other countries. And these people identify with Russia.)

"Graves of their forefathers." (HA - noone knows who these soldiers are, the Soviets did not bother to find out, and the monument is being moved, not destroyed. The little neo-Soviet russkies are pissed off because they want that special status they had during the Soviet union. And because Russia continues to agitate in other countries.)

La Russophobe has an article on its blog - "The Big Lie."

And kokoito has shown up to continue to spread LIES.

Russkies - what a bunch of lying, miserable un-cultured pukes.

And La Russophobe is right - in Russia, the people have agreed to be treated like idiots - for the glory of Greater Oily Orthodox Sovok Tsarist Mother Russia.

And they think that everyone outside of Russia is just as stupid as they are.

Moscow has a square named Swamp Square. It fits well.


Nosferatu says:

KOKOITO - please be kind enough, to tell me this: If the current riot'ers are were born and raised in estonia, then why in the sake of integration have they not learned estonian?

Besides, the actual schedule was to first identify the graves and then move the statue, but because of the riot the statue was moved and excavation postponed.

The only reason for the riot is because certain people (from "Night Watch" and other pro-USSR movements) are getting paid to start fights and get others to riot with them. Oddly enough their workdays end around 03:00 - after which the riot ends, although it would be far more effective to rampage for days at a time.

Option 1 - you're an estonian russian
Option 2 - you're getting paid to write this crap


Kokoito says:

La Russophobe,

If you would like to be taken seriously, lose the "some-russian-dumped-me" attitude. Your articles, to my mind, as your reader are not "in your face", but more like "I have more issues, than sex".


One question, though. It's not about this topic, or anything. Do you think in russian? I'm not being sarcastic here, it's just some of your sentences have this really strong "translated russian to english" vibe to them. You know, the whole "How dare you..." thing.

Hmmm... Are you klingon by any chance?


Elmer,

I'll just leave you to yourself.


Kokoito says:

Nosferatu,

I am an estonian ukrainian. As to your question. Well, I've been answering it implicitly all the time. It's what I mean under "vast sociollogical problem". They don't do it because, they relate themselves more to Russia, than to Estonia.

Like I said before, it is the tragedy of these people, that they associate themselves with Russia and *not* with Estonia. I don't think that Russia in anyway cares for them, more -- they use them as diplomatic excuse. THAT is the problem. What I *don't* understand, is why most ukrainians here, relate themselves more to Russia, than Ukraine. Thank the russian media, I guess.

Look, why did the crowd even listen to those certain people? They wouldn't start fighting, if there wasn't any predisposition for it. So, what caused this predisposition? I think, that is the root of it all.


elmer says:

The Big Lie continues.

Nosferatu is absolutely correct.

And so is La Russophobe.


kokoito is a liar. He's getting paid to write his crap.

And he's part of the russkie gang that uses the same crap in every former Soviet republic. They have a manual. All you have to do is insert the name of the country.

And in every country, they pick on Soros. They have an absolutely rabid fear of Soros, for some reason.


The jerks that rioted are "not Russian" - but, for some reason, the Russian Duma is throwing hissy fits about the whole thing.

And Nosferatu's question is right on point - why have the rioters not learned Estonian?

Answer - same as in every other former Soviet republic. They are russkies, they want to feel superior, and not part of any country, except Oily Mother Tsarist Sovok Russia, and they would rather cut out their their tongues than speak the language of the country where they live, and which they supposedly "love."


First, they make a murdering tsar a saint in the Oily Mother Russia Orthodox Church. Then they make Stalin a saint. They still make Lenin a saint. Now they are trying to make Putin a saint.

Except that they called Stalin not only their leader, they also called him their "Father." Same with Lenin.

They are a confused lot, because they don't know who their father is - Stalin, Lenin, or Putin.


To further answer Nosferatu's question:

The Ukrainians have a joke:

1) What do you call a person who knows 2 languages? Bilingual.

2) What do you call a person who knows 3 languages? Trilingual.

3) What do you call a person who knows only 1 language? Russian.

Misery makes them happy.


Person says:

Let's not forget that Russia occupaid almost half a Europe. It was not fight against nazis, but fight to gain a power. Please do not forget Soviet Union and cold war. Many occupaid countries had terrible times for 66 years! Countries wich where successful economicly, as Poland, Hungaria, Check Republic and also Estonia (little but pretty rich). Russia destroid this country, took peoples land and homes and send thousands and thousands of families to Siberia to die. Russia did the same to estonians what nazis did to jews and turkish to armenians. Communism is a crime equal to nazis.


elmer says:

Oh, but Person, all those people "begged" for the russkies to "liberate" them into the worker's paradise.

They "wanted" the russkies to be all over Europe, because the sovok worker's paradise was sooooooo - just and perfect.

They "begged" for their streets to be named after Lenin. And the unwise ones, who wanted freedom - well, they were just dirty "nationalist" who were sent to Siberia "for their own good."

And the people in Hungary and elsewhere "begged" to speak Russian, and they "begged" for statues of Lenin to be put up all over the place - because, after all, Lenin was their "father."

Just like Idi Amin and Saddam Hussein. How could Idi Amin, the "father" of Uganda, help it if people begged to name streets after him? How could Saddam Hussein, the "hero" of Iraq, help it if people wanted to put up statues and pictures of him all over the place? How could Hitler help it if people "wanted" to swear oaths of allegiance personally to him, and not to Germany?

And if millions of lives were lost - well, it was all for the "the glory of the people."

Communism a crime equal to nazism? I can hear the russkies screaming like pigs now - "but the nazis were fascists, and we killed people for their own good - we were different!"

I am sure you know what I mean, Person.


Incognito says:

Kokoito says : "All I'm saying, is that some two thousand people don't go and riot for two nights like hell, just for kicks -- something has driven them to do so."

It's a little reminiscent of the gross overreaction to the Danish Mohammed cartoons, and all the other frivolous reasons people find for violence and looting. The whole mob mentality. There is never any justification for that. Good grief it was just a monument.


Brian H says:

K;
Actually, people DO riot for a couple of nights just for kicks, and for looting. Especially if they're given a ready-made excuse.

Russ;
It's worse than that. The birth rate is so low that the population is in the late-early stages of exponential collapse. In very wealthy countries in W. Europe, there are countries with sub-replacement rates, too, but that is mainly reluctance to share the goodies with the kids and get tied up with child-rearing. In Russia, it's a despairing but considerate unwillingness to inflict Russia on innocent newborns.


Scruffy says:

Well, I'm half-russian, living in Estonia and I totally disagree with Kokoito.

It seem like you have a "tibla" brain. Tibla doesn't mean russian or russian speaking. I know personally few estonians who could be a tibla. Tibla stays more for a way to think and live. It's like a person who doen't have a nation and behaves like worst kind of Homo Sovieticus. Unfortunately lots of people that fits to this description are russian-speaking.

For the Second: You telling about a people with flowers, yes there was people with flowers at the first they at deytime... but the riots started by nighttime, when people with flowers went home or exchanged flowers against rocks.

For the Third: It seems that you are only reading russian news... 350 policemen resigned... yes i remember that it came from russian news as a propaganda. In fact i have a good friend working in estonian police and he told me that most of russian policemen in estonia, after they heard this "news" wanted to work more and show to the world that russian press lies!

And one more thing to you:
It wasnt 49%, it was 51% and it wasn't percent of populace, it was percent of russian spoken people in Estonia. With other word it was 1/6 of estonian population

About my opinion:
Actually knowing that this statue made a lots of pain for most of estonian people (mostly because 1944, when german troops recided, estonian people regenerated estonian goverment. A week later came russian troops and aircraft and flatted a whole estonian capital. They killed only civilians and later they started to call this day for freeing estonia from german nazis... Russians still denies, that this has happened) I had nothing against it. Actually i never paid an attention to this, for me it doesn't matter if there was a statue of a soldier, king or a penis. I believed that if there is a people who had relationship to this statue, let it be. This was my opinion until two years ago. Then I went of a bus (actually there is a bus stop right on a graves) and i was speaking to my estonian friend in estonian language. I wasn't thinking that this is a 9th may (russians celebrate then end of WW2). There was lots of people, with red soviet flags and they was screaming and yelling, drinking vodka (in Estonia its forbidden to drink alcohol in a public places) and dancing (in my knowledge this kind of behavior is not allowed on a graves in any culture). I didn't payed attention and went my way and chatting with my friend, when suddenly... somebody out of this mass of people started to pint at me and screaming "f..ing estonian nazis, kill them". After that a lot of a people started to scream loudly a f word to me and my friend . We didn't payed attention and tryed to get out of there, when we noticed that some of a people started to hunt us and somebody throw an empty glass bottle. After this day i totally changed my mind. I started to understand better estonians misery and i started to hate really hardly those "Tiblad".

To the end i want just say that i agree with estonian government: if this is a grave for a soldiers, then it should be placed on military graveyard and it should be treated as grave and memory place, not like a public pub!


Person says:

What ever was the reason for riot it does not make crime good! Right?! You still have to fallow the law, other wize you will get ponished. Everything is very simple. You just do not shit to the same bowl where you eat from!


Heldur Kalev says:

Ultimately, the way you treat others is the way you will be eventually be treated. Russia is near economic bankruptcy but has a far worse problem of being morally bankrupt. Putin cannot allow any opposition or freedom of speech in Russia but will encourage riots and destruction when it serves his interests. What is happening in Estonia is sad but I support this moral stregth of this tiny country for realizing Estonia should do what is best for Estonia!


Heldur Kalev says:

Ultimately, the way you treat others is the way you will be eventually be treated. Russia is near economic bankruptcy but has a far worse problem of being morally bankrupt. Putin cannot allow any opposition or freedom of speech in Russia but will encourage riots and destruction when it serves his interests. What is happening in Estonia is sad but I support this moral stregth of this tiny country for realizing Estonia should do what is best for Estonia!


Person says:

Hahhahahahaha! It gets even funnier! Now Russiand Duma demands taht Estonian goverment should step back. They really think that Estonia belongs still to them and they truly bealive that Soviet Union is still rock'n rolling! Where those people in Russian Duma have been living past 17 years?


elmer says:

Scruffy:

You bring up a very important point.

I've seen a web site where a poor little russkie was trying to get sympathy by claiming that noone understands him, he's Russian, but he doesn't live in Russia, that he is like a "Man Without a Country" by Kurt Vonnegut.

What utter moronic nonsense!

All over the former Soviet Union are people of various nationalities who were forcibly re-settled into other countries - Estonians were scattered all over, into Russia, into Ukraine, and elsewhere.

Same is true for lots of other nationalities. Uzbeks wound up in Europe, for example.

Yet, the only ones who seem to have trouble accepting the country where they live are - the russkies.

Because they still believe they are Homo Sovieticus, and that they get to have special privileges, and that they get to dictate to everyone else.

What a bunch of absolutely, vile miserable pukes.

Now, there are some Russians who have decided to be human beings. And they can act like civilized, cultured people.

But the Russian Duma raising a ruckus because a memorial in Estonia is being moved ----- not "removed," as is claimed by some russkies who try to justify the rioting and looting ------ who do they think they are?

They think that they are Hitler.


elmer says:

Well, speak of the devil.

Ukrainian media is reporting that pro-Russians went to the Estonian embassy in Kyiv, the capital of Ukraine, and threw eggs and bottles filled with some kind of unknown green substance at the Estonian embassy building.

Homo sovieticus, indeed.

Yuk!


tibla says:

Kim is lying about "Nashi participation." She gets the picket infront of the embassy in Moscow and Tallinn confused - its hard to keep track of geography when you're in commenting on politics from US. Her link to Yahoo even reads "movement takes part in a rally in front of the Estonian embassy in Moscow."

Dumb slut


tibla says:

30% of those arrested were ethnic Estonians - http://rus.delfi.ee/archive/article.php?id=15696574&categoryID=309647&ndate=1177621200

So I do not know on what basis the ethnic slur captions were attached to the pictures above.


John says:

Although 1000 people were arrested, there are no pictures of how it was done. That's where the violence took place.

Whatever you see on these pics is one sided view targeted to tell that Russians are criminals. You see teenagers on these photos. Teenagers are not adults and they don't have adults' responsibilities. I don't buy the author's bullshit.

Post pictures about marches of Estonian nazis, SS troops veterans, sceens of harassment of Russian speaking population. Post everything that is going on in Estonia. People must see a fair image of your country.


EST-RUS-US says:

A useful link for you - http://palun.blogspot.com/ An American residing in Estonia and trying to make sense of us - which isn't always easy.
There are some pictures of the idiotic Lihula monument if you Google it but you'd be hard pressed to find any evidence of SS-rallies in Estonia - there simply aren't any.
I can assure you that this was indeed a looting spree. Things could've gotten very ugly on an ethnic basis a few weeks ago when there was a football match between Estonia and Russia. I walked around the Old Town that evening and it was filled with Russians waving Russian flags and feeling pretty pleased with themselves. They did go and place flowers at the Bronze Soldier. The police was there, but despite their bloodthirstiness they managed to hold themselves back and not start beating up innocent Russian teenagers. I am getting rather sick of the view that every Estonian spends at least two hours a day trying to come up with best ways to discriminate Russians and that our favourite meal is a Russian child roasted on a small fire. Read Scruffy's post.
And also, try to wonder at posts like "Russia doesn't have to do anything, the countries will take care of it themselves". Erm... take care of what?



AllEX5 says:

Hello everyone.
0)I'm live in Russia, Moscow.
1) Why west-world so hate Russia? Cause mass-media tells you to do that?
2) I think all 70-years period of Soviet in our country was a big mistake. And the decade of USSR was irreversible. So USSR government had a lot of mistakes. But it is PAST. I read newspaper of San Francisco of 1984. And it discusses can Afro-American sits in one bus with white ones... And this people trying to get advises about civil and humanism...
Another word about democracy... The politics of Bush is the democracy? Make war ONLY on the economics needs of they country. And how can they dare to talk about the democracy? It seems like people in west are the sheep flock. Films of Roger Moore (Fahrenheit 9/11), and songs of modern groups like Rage against the Machine (bullet in your head) are not lying as I see...
3) Another word. Here, in Russia, as in over the world, not the democracy. But what the fault of the Russia in this conflict? The terrible treatment to so-called "rassian-speaking" of nationalist Estonian government is the reason of the started violence. The Bronze Soldier was only boiling point.
Who in Europe and USA are not nationalist? Don't make me laugh. Everyone cares only about his back.


AllEX5 says:

Hello everyone.
0)I'm live in Russia, Moscow.
1) Why west-world so hate Russia? Cause mass-media tells you to do that?
2) I think all 70-years period of Soviet in our country was a big mistake. And the decade of USSR was irreversible. So USSR government had a lot of mistakes. But it is PAST. I read newspaper of San Francisco of 1984. And it discusses can Afro-American sits in one bus with white ones... And this people trying to get advises about civil and humanism...
Another word about democracy... The politics of Bush is the democracy? Make war ONLY on the economics needs of they country. And how can they dare to talk about the democracy? It seems like people in west are the sheep flock. Films of Roger Moore (Fahrenheit 9/11), and songs of modern groups like Rage against the Machine (bullet in your head) are not lying as I see...
3) Another word. Here, in Russia, as in over the world, not the democracy. But what the fault of the Russia in this conflict? The terrible treatment to so-called "rassian-speaking" of nationalist Estonian government is the reason of the started violence. The Bronze Soldier was only boiling point.
Who in Europe and USA are not nationalist? Don't make me laugh. Everyone cares only about his back.


elmer says:

Hello, everyone.

Unlike AllEX5, I'm pretend I live in Moscow, Russia, rather than Russia, Moscow.

And I tell you - west no is democracy.

West - very bad. Ask Venezuela. Ask Al-Quaeda.

In West, everyone on drugs is. You can read so in Russian newspapers.

What is fault of Russia? Never is fault of Russia.

Why everybady always pick on Russia and Russian-speaking?

First, we tell - nationalism is bad.

Now, we tell on web site - everyone in Europe and USA are nationalist. Boy, don't make me laugh.

Also, politics easy - Russia never at fault, just listen Rage Against Machine.

Is good philosophy of life, too.

Why everyone treat Russia so bad?

70-years of Soviet in our country was mistake - because we did not get everything.

Putin change all that, with force and oil.

But remember - Russia not at fault for anything.


Don't make me laugh. Watch your back.


elmer says:

Hello, everyone.

Unlike AllEX5, I'm pretend I live in Moscow, Russia, rather than Russia, Moscow.

And I tell you - west no is democracy.

West - very bad. Ask Venezuela. Ask Al-Quaeda.

In West, everyone on drugs is. You can read so in Russian newspapers.

What is fault of Russia? Never is fault of Russia.

Why everybady always pick on Russia and Russian-speaking?

First, we tell - nationalism is bad.

Now, we tell on web site - everyone in Europe and USA are nationalist. Boy, don't make me laugh.

Also, politics easy - Russia never at fault, just listen Rage Against Machine.

Is good philosophy of life, too.

Why everyone treat Russia so bad?

70-years of Soviet in our country was mistake - because we did not get everything.

Putin change all that, with force and oil.

But remember - Russia not at fault for anything.


Don't make me laugh. Watch your back.


elmer says:

Hello, everyone.

Unlike AllEX5, I'm pretend I live in Moscow, Russia, rather than Russia, Moscow.

And I tell you - west no is democracy.

West - very bad. Ask Venezuela. Ask Al-Quaeda.

In West, everyone on drugs is. You can read so in Russian newspapers.

What is fault of Russia? Never is fault of Russia.

Why everybady always pick on Russia and Russian-speaking?

First, we tell - nationalism is bad.

Now, we tell on web site - everyone in Europe and USA are nationalist. Boy, don't make me laugh.

Also, politics easy - Russia never at fault, just listen Rage Against Machine.

Is good philosophy of life, too.

Why everyone treat Russia so bad?

70-years of Soviet in our country was mistake - because we did not get everything.

Putin change all that, with force and oil.

But remember - Russia not at fault for anything.


Don't make me laugh. Watch your back.


armchair pessimist says:

The West doesn't hate Russia, but maybe the gods do. First they sent Communism, then they sent oil.

I'd watch my own back, AllEX5. China has its eye on your oil. If you Russians are not very careful and very wise, your grandkids will be pulling rickshaws.

Of course, since you're not having children, there's no neede to worry.



armchair pessimist says:

The West doesn't hate Russia, but maybe the gods do. First they sent Communism, then they sent oil.

I'd watch my own back, AllEX5. China has its eye on your oil. If you Russians are not very careful and very wise, your grandkids will be pulling rickshaws.

Of course, since you're not having children, there's no neede to worry.



armchair pessimist says:

The West doesn't hate Russia, but maybe the gods do. First they sent Communism, then they sent oil.

I'd watch my own back, AllEX5. China has its eye on your oil. If you Russians are not very careful and very wise, your grandkids will be pulling rickshaws.

Of course, since you're not having children, there's no neede to worry.



armchair pessimist says:

The West doesn't hate Russia, but maybe the gods do. First they sent Communism, then they sent oil.

I'd watch my own back, AllEX5. China has its eye on your oil. If you Russians are not very careful and very wise, your grandkids will be pulling rickshaws around your fomer eastern regions.

Of course, since you're not having children, there's no neede to worry.



armchair pessimist says:

The West doesn't hate Russia, but maybe the gods do. First they sent Communism, then they sent oil.

I'd watch my own back, AllEX5. China has its eye on your oil. If you Russians are not very careful and very wise, your grandkids will be pulling rickshaws around your fomer eastern regions.

Of course, since you're not having children, there's no neede to worry.



armchair pessimist says:

The West doesn't hate Russia, but maybe the gods do. First they sent Communism, then they sent oil.

I'd watch my own back, AllEX5. China has its eye on your oil. If you Russians are not very careful and very wise, your grandkids will be pulling rickshaws around your fomer eastern regions.

Of course, since you're not having children, there's no neede to worry.



armchair pessimist says:

The West doesn't hate Russia, but maybe the gods do. First they sent Communism, then they sent oil.

I'd watch my own back, AllEX5. China has its eye on your oil. If you Russians are not very careful and very wise, your grandkids will be pulling rickshaws around your fomer eastern regions.

Of course, since you're not having children, there's no neede to worry.



armchair pessimist says:

The West doesn't hate Russia, but maybe the gods do. First they sent Communism, then they sent oil.

I'd watch my own back, AllEX5. China has its eye on your oil. If you Russians are not very careful and very wise, your grandkids will be pulling rickshaws around your fomer eastern regions.

Of course, since you're not having children, there's no neede to worry.



A.M. Mora y Leon says:

This piece frickin rocks, this is one of the best blog entries I've ever read! I love this piece, sorry I did not see it earlier! Man it rocks!


aldergrove says:

kinda sad

the problem to me it appears is that the Russians have never really been able to govern themselves. Why do the let tyrants, czars et al manipulate them. No democracy, no accountability, no responsibility. So what do you get? A culture that blames all their ills on everyone else. Estonia is one of the coolest Euro countries right now. And what of Russia? Hmmmmmmmm....


AllEX5 says:

2elmer

"And I tell you - west no is democracy.
West - very bad. Ask Venezuela. Ask Al-Quaeda."

Hm. Who gave diplomacy shield for Zagcaev - main terrorist in "Ichikeria"? GB. Who give a money for Afghanistan terrorists? USA. First West make the shit but then it cries: Russia, Islam, China, North Korea… We want "peace", but for OIL. And in same time the make new "ПРО" on the territory of Latvia, Poland, Chezh, Estonia... VERY FUNNY.

"In West, everyone on drugs is. You can read so in Russian newspapers."
Bullshit. Russian papers lick ass to the West. How are they do? What did they said? And... I don't read papers and don't watch the TV.

"What is fault of Russia? Never is fault of Russia."
What is fault of West? Never is fault of West.

"Why everybady always pick on Russia and Russian-speaking?
First, we tell - nationalism is bad."
Tell it to Estonian nationalist and yourself. Do you want to change the world - change yourself first, as said one clever man.

"Now, we tell on web site - everyone in Europe and USA are nationalist. Boy, don't make me laugh."
Open your eyes.

"Also, politics easy - Russia never at fault, just listen Rage Against Machine.
Is good philosophy of life, too."
It's the philosophy indeed. You haven't and this small part of mind.

"Why everyone treat Russia so bad?
70-years of Soviet in our country was mistake - because we did not get everything.
Putin change all that, with force and oil.
But remember - Russia not at fault for anything."
Tell it to NATO. It isn't better.
USA make its war in Iraq without force?.. GB have no forces against North Irland?.. Izrael have no force against Livia?.. That a funny joke!

"Don't make me laugh. Watch your back."
I'll be happy you bang up by the laugh.


AllEX5 says:

Funny joke with repeating!))))) I'll keep it in my mind.)))))


AllEX5 says:

2armchair pessimist

You damn right! We make problems from the air... I'll try to make many pretty kids.)))))


Phantom says:

About photos. You gave one human and judge all the nation. Firstly, you don't know real reasons of this action. Secondly, Estonia was in occupation of USSR but not of Russia. In 1990s Russia signed the act about her not agree with actions of Soviet Union about occupation of Baltic countries.
Thirdly, who are you to make conclusions about it? It's not your land, not your history.



Emily says:

very one-sided opinion: vague and disturbing. The author is either illiterate or overwhelmed by anger. These debates about the monument are endless. no one is right no one is wrong, it's all about the people: what they believe in and what they consider right or wrong. The thing is, actually, no one really cares what you say if you are no one. Who gives a toss about what you have written here? Teens crashing everything on their way. I bet they had fun. how is this chaos connected to the monument? Is it all about the monument? I do not think so


yujgx says:

Alia chose anger as the easiest and most proper reaction dot
http://iriesaaya.hostuju.cz/ >14 irie saaya*
Stilgars sent them into the desert Jessica said dot


yujgx says:

Alia chose anger as the easiest and most proper reaction dot
http://iriesaaya.hostuju.cz/ >14 irie saaya*
Stilgars sent them into the desert Jessica said dot


aleksey says:

One MASSIVE flaw with this:

How do we know the looters are all Russian?
Is it written on their faces that they are Russian?

For all I know, the Estonian youths, seeing the opportunity to loot and break shit (as youths everywhere are inclined to like), joined in just as enthusiastically.

Who gives a shit about Estonia anyways? A little speck of a "nation", but stirring big shit up and stinking up the whole continent.


efmai says:

Byron and others men of iron men who have dared to breast the
http://hintai.blogspot.com/ >hintai school*
person who seemed to consist chiefly of linen such a display did he


Scruffy says:

to Aleksey...
It seems that your brain is mall as fly nuts.

This is the most egoistic and with a smallest understanding of the world and life i have ever seen.

You need to be careful what you say.

Try to see this in this way: Forget about this problem with Estonia. Try to see history... What if Chinghis Khan hasn't retreat, but instead built his empire on todays russia? Few generations later wakes the russian nation again and gets free, declares its independence and so on. The Mongols is a minority in Russia... Only left over from the Mongol empire is a memories and a statues. One of them (chinghis khan soldier) is strategically placed in the middle of Moscow, at the Red Square. Normally every year at certain dates a group of Mongols comes to the statue to honor the dead Mongol soldiers. Of course the Russians don't like the statue and specially they don't like its placement (this statue gives a sad memories about Mongol soldiers killing alla Russian men and raping women). It is placed for Russians on a holy place. Last few years has been different: At those special dates for Mongols, when they are coming to this statue, the Mongols started with a political meetings at the statue. They shout about all Russians are inhuman, they should be killed and the Russia is a part of Mongolia. They are taking drugs and singing Mongolian war songs and having Mongolian war flags at the Red Square. Every Russian passing by this place is called for Devil, idiot etc. Majority of the Russian people wants to end this and get rid of this statue, but its not easy, because it is also a grave for a soldiers (which makes all of this silly, it is not normal to take drugs and keep meetings on a grave). Government decides to move statue and graves to the Military cemetery. Now the Mongolian state started to put his nose in this thing... Everything else you know what happens.

Why i wrote this? You need to understand why Estonians wanted to move this statue and then start to argue if it was write or wrong.

Previously was my opinion, that nothing should be changed, every building and statue marks a history, but now i understand also Estonians and i think those buried soldiers was a simple men, husbands, sons and fathers, they wanted for sure a traditional funeral with a church and everything. Under Soviet time they didn't get it. Now they can be buried as a Christian people in the military cemetery, where is buried all kind of soldiers from different countries and from different wars. There is no matter on which side they where fighting on, now they have peace and are equal.


mike18 rxln says:

not all turned out just as we said? And with such a conceited
http://mike18-blog.blogspot.com/ >mike18 video*
The Baron was going to Berlin to join his sister and Flemming


ghay fcuv says:

Of such examples history has recorded many Dante Cervantes
http://ghay-it-gay.blogspot.com/ >ghay cum*
dance and the music stopped dot Theimpression produced on the company


ghay fcuv says:

Of such examples history has recorded many Dante Cervantes
http://ghay-it-gay.blogspot.com/ >ghay cum*
dance and the music stopped dot Theimpression produced on the company


sesso badm says:

We seem to live in the midst of a battlethere is such a
http://sesso-amore.blogspot.com/ >culoni sesso amore*
ourown thoughts dot Boisterous mirth and loud laughter are not my mood dot


sesso badm says:

We seem to live in the midst of a battlethere is such a
http://sesso-amore.blogspot.com/ >culoni sesso amore*
ourown thoughts dot Boisterous mirth and loud laughter are not my mood dot


twinks tizs says:

winter dot Paul Flemming buried himself in books in old dusty books dot
http://gay-twinkss.blogspot.com/ >dac8 gay twinks*
O yes among the figurantes of the Opera dot But I confess it


twinks tizs says:

winter dot Paul Flemming buried himself in books in old dusty books dot
http://gay-twinkss.blogspot.com/ >dac8 gay twinks*
O yes among the figurantes of the Opera dot But I confess it


exjteku says:

the name seemed to have thrown him into a reverieI know the book
http://gerard-butler-blog.blogspot.com/ >gerard butler married*
order dot Just observe the liquidity of the water and the silveryness


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YOUR RUSSIAN MASTER says:

God Bless Those Russian and Their DNA, We All Fuckin Know "YOU GUYZ" are tha fuckin biggest hypocrites& waste of fuckin flesh on the face of the earth!!! Give "US" a break "YOU" are so over-opinionated and moronic it aint funny... Jeeze does it make you think su-27 is small potatoes to us!!Next Stop America and its Allies!!! I wonder what we can take back what is rightfully ours there???


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