Rallying Big For Free Speech In Venezuela

I just love it how some ppl find the time, willingness and the courage to get out in the streets and ask for what is rightfully theirs! I wish I'd see that in RO, too, but not likely during my own generation...Great post!

Posted May 27, 2007 6:16 AM

How can Chavez sleep? With every stupid stunt he pulls he is one step closer to getting eliminated by some poor slob of a worker who has just lost everything. The fear factor must be HUGE.

Posted May 27, 2007 8:13 AM

RCTV is going off air because it directly participated in the 2002 military coup against democracy. The coup plotters even thanked RCTV live on air the morning after the coup! Why has this report left out that all important fact?

Venezuela, like most countries, has laws and regulation about what can be broadcast. These cover things like swearing, sex and violence, and not using the public airwaves to overthrow the elected government.

Can anyone name a single country in which a private TV channel that participated in a coup would get its licence renewed?

If not, you don't have a case.

Posted May 27, 2007 11:49 AM

Cal: That's false. All they did was split the screen showing Chavez shooting people in the streets while Hugo tried to hog the whole TV set with one of his long speeches PRECISELY to keep footage of the shootings off the air. The stations were evading censorship, not participating in a coup. RCTV refused to be silent.

Posted May 27, 2007 11:53 AM

RCTV turned over their studios to the coup plotters in the run up to the coup. They also suspended regular advertising and replaced it with messages calling on the population to overthrow the government.

During the coup, RCTV istructed its reporters not to cover the news that the coup was being opposed - a senior producer resigned in protest.

When the coup was being defeated in the streets and in army bases, RCTV imposed a news blackout and played cartoons and soap operas.

The morning after the coup, the coup plotters thanked RCTV for their support. This was broadcast live to the nation.

So please, stop trying to fool people.

Posted May 27, 2007 12:06 PM

Mora, you are such a brazen liar, but what else would one expect from an advocate for rapacious capitalism, class domination, and imperialist agression.

RCTV participated in the coup via sins of omission, slander, and outright lies.

You see all these information crimes as a mere function of capitalist regiems--we see this as the on-going effort by greedy exploiters to sifle democracy and further the perverted, necrophilic goals of empire.

We win because we have the people, truth and Jesus on our side.

Posted May 27, 2007 12:40 PM

Wow. The Marxists really came out of the woodwork with that post, Mora. Funny how all these images of the People marching in the streets, opposing Chavez, mean nothing to these two. As usual, "Slave Revolt" is long on "you evil capitalist pig dog!" rhetoric.

It's actually kind of funny.

Posted May 27, 2007 1:40 PM

Click on this link to the documentary 'The Revolution Will Not Be Televised'. Scroll to exactly 43 minutes into the video, and you can see the coup plotters thank RCTV for supporting the coup. The "thank you RCTV" moment was screened live on TV the morning after the coup.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5832390545689805144

What is the point in denying RCTV's involvement in the coup, when all has been confessed on air?

Wake up and face reality. RCTV were involved in the 2002 coup that abolished the elected parliament, kidnapped the elected president, abolished the Supreme Court, and installed a rich businessman as dictator.

These are the facts.

RCTV got away with it for 5 years and kept broadcasting their vile propaganda and lies. They should count themselves lucky. In any other country their owners and directors would be serving life sentences for treason.

And yet these odious coupsters have the nerve to whine about "free speech"! It's breathtaking.

Posted May 27, 2007 1:50 PM

The European Parliament has strongly condemned the closure of RCTV. This post over at Caracas Chronicles lays it out.

Posted May 27, 2007 2:29 PM

Tucker,

COUP??? The coupster in this story have a name, HUGO CHAVEZ. Remember 1992.

Don't YOU try to fool anybody in here.

Posted May 27, 2007 2:30 PM

So no denial that RCTV actively participated in a coup against the elected government?

That's your case finsished then.

PS: Chavez's insurrection in 1992 was a response to an illegitimate and corrupt government which had left most Venezuelans in desperate poverty. Why illegitimate? Because they had murdered 2,000 civilian protesters in the 1989 'Caracazo' and secretly buried the bodies in mass graves. That's reasonable grounds for an insurrection. Trying to overthrow Chavez, a president who has massacred noboby and is supported by two thirds of Venezuelans, is not a reasonable act. It's an act of desperation by a rotting oligarchy who refuse to accept the will of the people.

Posted May 27, 2007 2:51 PM

Tucker,

NO, Chavez has kidnapped all the institutions, including the Supreme Court who is ruling against RCTV and the electoral council, who fixed the elections, so for you to say that he has the support of 2/3 of the country is not true, there's no separation of state and rule of law in the Venezuela at this present moment Tucker.

So don't you come here to talk about punishing coupsters, because for that, the first one who has to come to JAIL is Hugo Chavez OK? For coupster and for not comply with the constitution of the country.

Posted May 27, 2007 3:24 PM

I wish you more luck with your analysis of the UK because you just flunked Latin American affairs.

Posted May 27, 2007 3:27 PM

Cal: Not one RCTV person participated in the coup because not one of them wants to participate in any future government. Unlike you, they're journalists, they want to be journalists and stay journalists. Since when is supporting one side of a coup the same as 'participating' in a coup. Why is it you can't name one name or one deed that counts in any meaningful way as coupmongering? Did Marcel Granier pick up a rifle? No, he just reported the news - news that Hugo Chavez didn't want reported. That made him mad and he exacted his dictator's revenge. That is all there is to it.

Posted May 27, 2007 3:33 PM

Answer me this, Mr. Tucker.

Was RCTV denied this license renewal via due process of law, or presidential decree? The distinction is critical, because if the latter, it is the act of a dictator.

RCTV is attemping to appeal this via the Supreme Court, but as Human Rights Watch noted back in 2004, Chavez has stacked the court with his political supporters. It's therefore unlikely that RCTV will get a fair hearing.

Where's the due process?

Posted May 27, 2007 3:38 PM

Do ANY of you pundits actually LIVE in Venezuela? I DO.

Cal: Who says that a media outlet can't be partisan? If that were the case, both CNN and Fox should be shut down. RCTV does editorialize for and supports the opposition. It is not a dirty little secret. So what?

The truth is that Chavez is shutting down all voices of dissent here. He has surrounded himself with people who are afraid to tell him the truth, for fear of the jobs. And, when it comes to policy, he doesn't even consult with them, resulting in some of the most monumental idiocies I have ever seen perpetrated by Government, since Castro was young.

To be balanced, as distasteful as I find him and his style of politics, he actually has done some good in the way of breaking down the barriers erected by the previous oligarchy to upward mobility. This is part of the same social changes that Argentina, Chile, and Peru went through about thirty years ago. Because of the Chavez revolution, the wealthy elite of Venezuela will never be able to go back to business as usual.

However, Chavez' economic policies are resulting in astounding inflation and shortages of basic goods that are only hurting the poor people and not the wealthy. In fact, the wealthy are actually profiting from these policies at the expense of the very people who voted for Chavez!

In spite of Chavez' protestations that he doesn't want Cuban style communism, the fact is that he is leading Venezuela down the same dreary road that Castro led Cuba. And when the people of Venezuela spend hours standing in line for food and send their daughters into the streets to sell their bodies for the hard currency they need to survive, they will cry, "But, I didn't mean THIS!"

But it will be too late, because there will be no free press to listen to them and print their plea.

Posted May 27, 2007 4:57 PM

Tucker,

You are a slimeball, and enemy of feedom, and one who does not deserve the right to be free. Go home to your buddy Hu-go, and lick his arse some more, you disgusting excuse for a human being.

Posted May 27, 2007 7:28 PM

If the management of RCTV had done anything illegal in 2002, they would have been arrested and tried in court. Refusing to renew their license years later is the act of a sleazy dictator who is afraid of public scrutiny.

Posted May 27, 2007 7:53 PM

Pay no mind to Calvin Tucker's and Slave Revolt's Stalinist ravings: it's just their "inner secret policemen" talking....

Time to get back on the meds, comrades! ;)

Posted May 27, 2007 8:58 PM

Oh dear! The arrival in all of his might of Calvin Tucker accusing the opposition of being liars is just priceless. I am not going to lower myself to discuss with Mr. Tucker who has written so many disparaging comments about Venezuelan bloggers INSIDE VENEZUELA as he is writing from the safety of some London office.

However I will invite any reader that is serious into understanding what is going on with the RCTV affair to visit this single link in my blog: http://daniel-venezuela.blogspot.com/2007/05/rctv-closing-in-venezuela-fair.html

There are also many other links if you please, or you can visit the blog of Miguel Octavio or Francisco Toro where real info, real reflexions can be found and not repeated paid for propaganda from Chavez lackeys.

But if you do not trust blogs, your right of course, you could do worse than visiting the editorial of Le Monde which trashes Chavez real good. Perhaps Mr. Tucker would like to explain to us how come the French newspaper that endorsed socialist candidate Segolene Royal can so thoroughly contradict the pathetic defense of Chavez he scribbled a few comments above. The editorial translation is here, and I included the link to the original French text just in case Mr. Tucker says that I twisted Le Monde words.

http://daniel-venezuela.blogspot.com/2007/05/le-monde-against-chavez.html

Posted May 27, 2007 9:28 PM

Join the campaign to stop the close of RCTV. Go to freerctv.org to get involved. Thank you for covering this story.

Posted May 27, 2007 9:38 PM

Bloody tyrants like Chavez would get nowhere without lying apologists like Ducker.

In the real world, the accounts are being kept. Chavez will answer.

Posted May 27, 2007 10:09 PM

I was almost certain that Tucker was a spoiled American communist with a trust fund. Oh well.

Tucker and slave revolt, if you find socialism revolutionary I highly recomend spending a little time reading about phrenology. It's for the radicals right now, but in the future everyone will understand how great it is.

There is no need for free speech in the 21st century if you have a brilliant leader like Hugo.

Posted May 27, 2007 11:48 PM

Calvin Tucker,

You are merely the latest in a long line of Stalinist apologists - the ones who denied Cambodian genocides, Stalin's show trials, Mao's Great Leap Forward and all sorts of other Communist and Socialist horrors.

If you love Communism so much, I suggest you move to North Korea or Cuba to be among your Commie friends you evil, Stalinist piece of sh*t.

Posted May 28, 2007 12:24 AM

Good for Chavez.....I'll support ANYTHING he does that strengthens his power....power that will be used against the Bush administration's plans.

These people are traitors and are lucky they aren't being turned over to the ordinary people's justice.

Posted May 28, 2007 3:50 AM

To Yarina: stop your dirty mouthfoulness. So all of you, sick Chavez parrots, have the right of deciding who deserves the reverse punishment before the veredict, Alice in wonderland in the real world. So, tell us, embodiment of the Justice defense, which is the "ordinary people´s justice", perhaps your idea is a "Popular Court", heads cutted cursorily, swiftly, in the behalf of the "War against the Empire"? Venezuelans are nauseated from people like you, beginning from that Gorilla which usurpates the Presidential seat to the thugs he sends to the streets in tense moments like these, no policemen, no, thugs armed with long arms (rifles), shooting without an aim, only to terrorize. I desire for you to live all this, but not as a privileged comrade of the "Revolution",yet as a normal citizen. Then you would not dare to express yourself like that.

Posted May 28, 2007 4:26 AM

Some crazy idiot is saying that the COUP OF 1992 WAS GOOD!

If one coup against a democratic government, like the one of 1992 is good, then THE COUP OF 2002 IS GOOD ALSO!

Chávez is leading Venezuela into worse poverty and social chaos than the previous governments could even dream of. So, THE 2002 COUP WAS EVEN MORE JUSTIFIED THAN THE 1992 COUP.

It is impossible to try to spin the issue saying that one coup is good and the other is bad. Either they are BOTH GOOD OR BOTH BAD.
Why? Because a COUP IS ALWAYS A COUP, regardless of who attempts it.
Actually Chávez should be in jail for his 1992 coup.

Posted May 28, 2007 6:30 AM

The reason the poor are supporting him, is because like all marxist autocrats, he uses government cheese to buy their votes. Calvin, socialism has failed, or is failing in every single country in the world where it is tried. Socialism/marxism can never work in a truly democratic society, because it is not compatible with true freedom. In a democratic society, with free markets, you can determine your own destiny. With marxism/socialism, the state decides your destiny. Sorry bud, your ideology has killed more human beings than any other political system in the history of this planet. It does not work, it has never worked, and it is always doomed to fail. Oh and by the way, great job your ideological brothers did collectivizing the farms in Africa. Those famines down there have been a serious boon to the people of that continent. Freaking buffoon.

Posted May 28, 2007 7:47 AM

In the United States, New York Times, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, and PBS regularly side with those that promote anti-american and anti-free speech positions. In doing so, each poses a threat to the US government. Perhaps they should be shut down too.

Posted May 28, 2007 7:47 AM

Calvin Tucker

Abuse? What abuse? From whom?

And why is it that we must submit to your demands? Why don't you start by replying to our questions?

Anyway, it is so easy to reply to your fallacious argument that I will go ahead. If RCTV and Granier did indeed managed the 2002 coup how come they are not in jail? How come Chavez waited 5 years for the alleged "end" (which is not an end legally)?

If you cannot explain that then your case AGAINST RCTV collapses.

And do not tell us that it is some form of tolerance and magnanimity from Chavez since it would mean that Chavez failed to apply the law, failed to prosecute criminals and that by itself for a government is a crime.

So Calvin, are you going to show us how hurt your side is by trying to shout louder than us? After all, it did kind of work for your boss, he has been shouting louder than RCTV this week through zillions of cadenas. But Le Monde is not buying, and I mean it in the sense of Le World.

Posted May 28, 2007 8:20 AM

Mora:
ABC of Madrid is NOT a Marxist paper. In fact it's a monarchist, somewhat Catholic, anti-Catalan, Basque and 'regional' nationalities paper.

xavier

Posted May 28, 2007 9:42 AM

Xavier: I didn't call it Marxist. Thanks for your perspective on its editorial line.

Posted May 28, 2007 11:02 AM

Venezuela,
look at other examples of the world, those of you who want a Marxist regime.
How many millions did Stalin kill?
It only took about 70 years of misery, death and crime for the soviet union to fall.
While Democracy isn't perfect, OUR version has lasted over 200 years. OUR version allows that we can change out our leaders whenever we want to...how about your version?
Yarina, how long will it be before you go hungry? before you have to make a choice between feeding someone you love and yourself?
war, pestilence and famine will follow your country in short order..hide and watch.
I feel badly for all of you down there, but its your fault. You allowed it to happen.

Posted May 28, 2007 2:48 PM

Jeez, Calvin Tucker: Mao much? And shouldn't you be studying for your "Revolutionary Psychology" final? Remember to where your Che Guevara shirt. It's like giving the prof a BJ.

Posted May 28, 2007 3:06 PM

heh. Is that you Tucker:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/4/27/20830/6973

Posted May 29, 2007 2:00 AM

If RCTV plotted in 2002, why did it take 5 years for Chavez to act? This is the actions of a weak man who can tolerate NO dissent.

Posted May 29, 2007 10:29 AM

first of all, Calvin Tucker and Slave Revolt are socialists or communists or chavistas ... we call them PSFs meaning "Pendejos Sin Fronteras" or Fools Without Frontiers being that they do not live in Venezuela and have set foot in Venezuela a few times on sponsored revolutionary tours. I prefer to call them assholes.

Whether they are ignorant or shilling who cares.

About the coup: There were actually three coups. What the PSF like the retard Calvin fail to mention is the reason for the coup and key events that happened before and during.

Everyone (including the CIA) knew that there was going to be a march by civil society on the presidential palace. That is a march by unarmed pissed off citizens whose rights are already being trampled by Chavez.

With two weeks notice, Chavez, instead of diffusing what was going to be an explosive situation set about to make it worse by staging an ambush near the palace consisting of rooftop snipers.

In order to cover the killings, Chavez pulled a "cadena" whereby all TV and radio in the nation were forced to transmit what was supposed to be a live speech by Chavez from the presidential palace.

By 4pm, with the killing going on, private TV stations had realized that Chavez's speech was not live but recorded with a 15 minute delay. Chavez had then taken to directly ordering mechanized armor military units to take on unarmed civilians! Chavez giving the massacre orders over open military frequencies was recorded and is there for the record. That is when private TV station split the screen to show what was going on.

At that point the military brass (heads of AF, Navy, Army, GN) and other commanders refused to follow Chavez's order.

What is important to know is that coups are performed by the military and the military only and this one was impromptu it just happened and that is why it failed: lack of planning and preparation.

The military brass foolishly handed the reigns to a mixed group with Pedro Carmona as its face. Carmona then committed the second coup with the infamous Carmona decrees.

The military freaked and fearing prosecution by the new government (most military corrupt), they shifted their support to General Baduel who was now supporting Chavez. This was the third coup.

The original plan after deposing Chavez was to install a military junta and call elections. Those plans went awry one reason being that General Baduel was pissed at not being included in the junta (he was not trusted) and slick maneuvering by the group behind Pedro Carmona which had many active and retired military in its ranks. This goes to show that when push came to shove, Chavez lost all support.

The bottom line is the military. That is why you have a FASCIST MILITARY DICTATORSHIP in Venezuela.

Posted May 30, 2007 4:11 AM

first of all, Calvin Tucker and Slave Revolt are socialists or communists or chavistas ... we call them PSFs meaning "Pendejos Sin Fronteras" or Fools Without Frontiers being that they do not live in Venezuela and have set foot in Venezuela a few times on sponsored revolutionary tours. I prefer to call them assholes.

Whether they are ignorant or shilling who cares.

About the coup: There were actually three coups. What the PSF like the retard Calvin fail to mention is the reason for the coup and key events that happened before and during.

Everyone (including the CIA) knew that there was going to be a march by civil society on the presidential palace. That is a march by unarmed pissed off citizens whose rights are already being trampled by Chavez.

With two weeks notice, Chavez, instead of diffusing what was going to be an explosive situation set about to make it worse by staging an ambush near the palace consisting of rooftop snipers.

In order to cover the killings, Chavez pulled a "cadena" whereby all TV and radio in the nation were forced to transmit what was supposed to be a live speech by Chavez from the presidential palace.

By 4pm, with the killing going on, private TV stations had realized that Chavez's speech was not live but recorded with a 15 minute delay. Chavez had then taken to directly ordering mechanized armor military units to take on unarmed civilians! Chavez giving the massacre orders over open military frequencies was recorded and is there for the record. That is when private TV station split the screen to show what was going on.

At that point the military brass (heads of AF, Navy, Army, GN) and other commanders refused to follow Chavez's order.

What is important to know is that coups are performed by the military and the military only and this one was impromptu it just happened and that is why it failed: lack of planning and preparation.

The military brass foolishly handed the reigns to a mixed group with Pedro Carmona as its face. Carmona then committed the second coup with the infamous Carmona decrees.

The military freaked and fearing prosecution by the new government (most military corrupt), they shifted their support to General Baduel who was now supporting Chavez. This was the third coup.

The original plan after deposing Chavez was to install a military junta and call elections. Those plans went awry one reason being that General Baduel was pissed at not being included in the junta (he was not trusted) and slick maneuvering by the group behind Pedro Carmona which had many active and retired military in its ranks. This goes to show that when push came to shove, Chavez lost all support.

The bottom line is the military. That is why you have a FASCIST MILITARY DICTATORSHIP in Venezuela.

Posted May 30, 2007 4:13 AM

first of all, Calvin Tucker and Slave Revolt are socialists or communists or chavistas ... we call them PSFs meaning "Pendejos Sin Fronteras" or Fools Without Frontiers being that they do not live in Venezuela and have set foot in Venezuela a few times on sponsored revolutionary tours. I prefer to call them assholes.

Whether they are ignorant or shilling who cares.

About the coup: There were actually three coups. What the PSF like the retard Calvin fail to mention is the reason for the coup and key events that happened before and during.

Everyone (including the CIA) knew that there was going to be a march by civil society on the presidential palace. That is a march by unarmed pissed off citizens whose rights are already being trampled by Chavez.

With two weeks notice, Chavez, instead of diffusing what was going to be an explosive situation set about to make it worse by staging an ambush near the palace consisting of rooftop snipers.

In order to cover the killings, Chavez pulled a "cadena" whereby all TV and radio in the nation were forced to transmit what was supposed to be a live speech by Chavez from the presidential palace.

By 4pm, with the killing going on, private TV stations had realized that Chavez's speech was not live but recorded with a 15 minute delay. Chavez had then taken to directly ordering mechanized armor military units to take on unarmed civilians! Chavez giving the massacre orders over open military frequencies was recorded and is there for the record. That is when private TV station split the screen to show what was going on.

At that point the military brass (heads of AF, Navy, Army, GN) and other commanders refused to follow Chavez's order.

What is important to know is that coups are performed by the military and the military only and this one was impromptu it just happened and that is why it failed: lack of planning and preparation.

The military brass foolishly handed the reigns to a mixed group with Pedro Carmona as its face. Carmona then committed the second coup with the infamous Carmona decrees.

The military freaked and fearing prosecution by the new government (most military corrupt), they shifted their support to General Baduel who was now supporting Chavez. This was the third coup.

The original plan after deposing Chavez was to install a military junta and call elections. Those plans went awry one reason being that General Baduel was pissed at not being included in the junta (he was not trusted) and slick maneuvering by the group behind Pedro Carmona which had many active and retired military in its ranks. This goes to show that when push came to shove, Chavez lost all support.

The bottom line is the military. That is why you have a FASCIST MILITARY DICTATORSHIP in Venezuela.

Posted May 30, 2007 4:15 AM

About the coup: There were actually three coups. What the PSF like the retard Calvin fail to mention is the reason for the coup and key events that happened before and during.

Everyone (including the CIA) knew that there was going to be a march by civil society on the presidential palace. That is a march by unarmed pissed off citizens whose rights are already being trampled by Chavez.

With two weeks notice, Chavez, instead of diffusing what was going to be an explosive situation set about to make it worse by staging an ambush near the palace consisting of rooftop snipers.

In order to cover the killings, Chavez pulled a "cadena" whereby all TV and radio in the nation were forced to transmit what was supposed to be a live speech by Chavez from the presidential palace.

By 4pm, with the killing going on, private TV stations had realized that Chavez's speech was not live but recorded with a 15 minute delay. Chavez had then taken to directly ordering mechanized armor military units to take on unarmed civilians! Chavez giving the massacre orders over open military frequencies was recorded and is there for the record. That is when private TV station split the screen to show what was going on.

At that point the military brass (heads of AF, Navy, Army, GN) and other commanders refused to follow Chavez's order.

What is important to know is that coups are performed by the military and the military only and this one was impromptu it just happened and that is why it failed: lack of planning and preparation.

The military brass foolishly handed the reigns to a mixed group with Pedro Carmona as its face. Carmona then committed the second coup with the infamous Carmona decrees.

The military freaked and fearing prosecution by the new government (most military corrupt), they shifted their support to General Baduel who was now supporting Chavez. This was the third coup.

The original plan after deposing Chavez was to install a military junta and call elections. Those plans went awry one reason being that General Baduel was pissed at not being included in the junta (he was not trusted) and slick maneuvering by the group behind Pedro Carmona which had many active and retired military in its ranks. This goes to show that when push came to shove, Chavez lost all support.

Posted May 30, 2007 4:19 AM

Calvin Tucker-

Can anyone name a single country in which a private TV channel that participated in a coup would get its licence renewed?

See: Dan Rather-- "60 Minutes"-- and the Democratic National Committee's "Fortunate Son" commercial campaign.

1)Use "forged" documents to push a story on the top-rated TV "news-magazine".

2)Co-ordinate with the DNC so that their ad campaign begins the very next day... using direct quotes from the same "60 Minutes" piece.

3)Lose anyways...

Why is CBS still on the air?

Posted June 2, 2007 7:24 PM

Calvin Tucker-

Can anyone name a single country in which a private TV channel that participated in a coup would get its licence renewed?

See: Dan Rather-- "60 Minutes"-- and the Democratic National Committee's "Fortunate Son" commercial campaign.

1)Use "forged" documents to push a story on the top-rated TV "news-magazine".

2)Co-ordinate with the DNC so that their ad campaign begins the very next day... using direct quotes from the same "60 Minutes" piece.

3)Lose anyways...

Why is CBS still on the air?

Posted June 2, 2007 7:53 PM

Calvin Tucker-

Can anyone name a single country in which a private TV channel that participated in a coup would get its licence renewed?

See: Dan Rather-- "60 Minutes"-- and the Democratic National Committee's "Fortunate Son" commercial campaign.

1)Use "forged" documents to push a story on the top-rated TV "news-magazine".

2)Co-ordinate with the DNC so that their ad campaign begins the very next day... using direct quotes from the same "60 Minutes" piece.

3)Lose anyways...

Why is CBS still on the air?

Posted June 2, 2007 8:00 PM

dvzhqli yasn ucgda piqobyf mvuk plasxwyn sznm

Posted June 3, 2007 9:55 PM