Best way to learn a language?

I found the Berlitz software to be good for grammar. You would need to skip a bit ahead. They start with vocabulary before moving into grammar.

Posted September 17, 2007 9:38 PM

You are absolutely right about Rosetta Stone and etc. These kinds of courses are always promising painless language learning without grammar. The best thing to do, especially with Spanish, which you already know how to pronounce, is to get a concise grammar. I learned my Spanish grammmar from an old Barnes & Noble paperback grammar book from the 70's. Each chapter focused on a couple of grammar points, very clearly and thoroughly. I think the title was simply "Spanish Grammar" or something like that.

Some of the older college textbooks, say from 10 - 20 years ago, would be good too, not the newer ones which bury all the grammar in lush pictures and photos. Just check out of the foreign language section of a used book store. If you see tables of verbs, etc., that's your ticket.

No substitute for grammar if you really want to learn the language thoroughly.

--Tony

Posted September 17, 2007 9:55 PM

read good authors in Spanish; best wat to learn and enjoy

Posted September 17, 2007 10:01 PM

Given that you already have a working knowledge of the language, I agree with the commenter who mentioned that your best is a grammar book.

In fairness to Rosetta Stone software, however, it DOES offer grammar instruction. The first part of Rosetta Stone is all about building up a working vocabulary. Later lessons require you to type the language, read the language, speak the language, and numerous other focused tutorials (i.e. not just pictures). These later tutorials that force you to construct and deconstruct sentences on your own end up teaching you the grammar. Still, for a comprehensive grammar education, you'd need to supplement with a book anyway.

By the way, I began attending a German high school (Bonn, Germany) before ever taking a word of German instruction in my American high school. I learned the language "organically," just like you did. Classrooms, bars, slang from fellow students, whatever it took to learn it from the ground up. It is from this perspective that I attest to the value of the grammar book. While I could speak and understand the language after a matter of months, it was only after hitting the books that I truly knew the language. And incidentally, forcing myself to learn German grammar ended up teaching me English grammar as well. Win-win!

Posted September 17, 2007 10:02 PM

I too speak Spanish and needed help with the grammar. The best thing I found was to read, especially if it's something you have already read in English (the Bible is GREAT for subjunctive, by the way). I read Garfield, Harry Potter... almost anything will ease the grammar into your brain as long as you already have a general idea of what it's saying. Then you don't have to pay so much attention to the vocabulary.

Posted September 17, 2007 10:13 PM

I agree that a grammar book would be helpful, but even better is someone who actually understands the subjunctive in Spanish and who speaks it well. A language teacher perhaps from the local college. The subjunctive isn't difficult, it's just very different from what we do in English. Once you grasp it, you will see how easy it really is. A book can explain it like a book, but a person can make pictures in the air.

Posted September 17, 2007 10:19 PM

There are two levels here. I used Bilingual America to pick up Spanish - it was excellent. It is a mix of workbooks, and online mixed with well prepared tutors. The simple answer is that there is no simple way to learn a language but BA makes it organized and fun. It is a good mix of very practical grammar with a lot of vocabulary. BA requires not classes in a classroom but a weekly phone call for half an hour - but their scheduling is very flexible.

Before BA I used a couple of tape programs including Berlitz and a language institute in Mexico - each had significant flaws.

At the second level, there are a ton of services on the net in podcasts that then allow you to sharpen your skills - I agree with the suggestion above about reading the language's best literature. (That is true for English also).

I would be interested in retaking on German next and any suggestions about programs like BA for German would be appreciated.

Posted September 17, 2007 10:20 PM

I am a fan of the Pimsleur method for getting started. I liked it far better than Rosetta Stone. If I'm going to use an audio program, I prefer simplicity to flashiness. But, not sure how much it helps me understand grammar. I say things with proper grammar because that's how I'm learning them. What Pimsleur won't teach you is the 'why' or the rules that make what you are saying correct.

For Spanish, I prefer formal teaching texts. Most of them have very handy verb tense charts.

Posted September 17, 2007 10:25 PM

I majored in Chinese in college (small caveat: I was a C student). I saw Rosetta stone, thought, "that might be a good way to keep studying my Chinese." Then I read a lot of reviews and realized it was best for someone with no training in a particular language, as opposed to someone with 4 years of language training.

Then I thought "maybe I'll learn Pashto or Farsi..." Which was intriguing, until my brother said to me "become fluent in Chinese first, you dilettante." So I'm still struggling to improve my Chinese on my own, here in the USA.

Posted September 17, 2007 10:27 PM

To fine tune your Spanish (but without undue focus on the grammar), I'd recommend Assimil's Using Spanish (their advanced course). The French version was a lifesaver for me when I lived over there.

For a grammar focus, I'd take a look at the Schaum's College Outline. English Grammar for Students of Spanish also has strong points. Then, if your Spanish is really that good, you should go to Barnes and Noble or Borders and find the Spanish version of Writing for Dummies or one of the other offerings for native speakers to refine their expression.

For what it's worth, I've found Rosetta Stone nice for vocabulary and basic phrases, but would be wary of using it to perfect my Spanish. I think a good textbook is a better bet.

Posted September 17, 2007 10:31 PM

Curso Intensivo is what I used in language school. And the essential "5000 verb conjugation" books out there. Learn what a shoe-verb conjugation looks like. mnemonic devices like you used in grade school. No easy way to do it, you just gotta make it happen. Or get a fun, good teacher.

tw:publius!

Posted September 17, 2007 10:34 PM

If you want a handy reference tool, get a 'verb wheel'. A company named Cuthberson (sp?) used to make them. Well, that was in the late 1960s . . .

Posted September 17, 2007 10:55 PM

I think it's very interesting that the most prevalent response is to simply get a grammar book, dig down, and learn it the hard way. I really do think that's the best way to go. My problem is that I have terrible self-discipline with things like this, which is why classroom learning is so difficult for me -- I simply won't go to class! (pathetic... I know)

For me it's more of an issue of how the information is organized. A straight up grammar book may also be too much for me. I have no problem with learning everything by memory but if it's just there in a table then it may be tough.

I found a really cool website called conjuguemos.com and it's basically memorization exercises that you do over and over again, organized into respective grammatical and vocabulary categories. Anyone interested should check it out.

Posted September 17, 2007 11:27 PM

I learned German with cheap records and four years of high school
I learned Spanish with cheap audiotapes and two years of Latin in High school and adopting two sons who didn't speak English.
I learned ChiShona by cheap tapes and a teacher and immersion.
I'm still trying to learn Tagolog...old age makes it harder.Right now I'm using FSI. The main problem is grammar for non European languages.

Rosetta Stone is great. I sent one to my grandson to learn Japanese. FSI language stuff is now on the internet, and is also great...and free.http://fsi-language-courses.com/Hebrew.aspx

Posted September 17, 2007 11:34 PM

I would recommend getting the 501 Spanish Verbs book, which (assuming it's similar to the ones for French, German and Russian) will provide an excellent description of 501 (no surprise there) of the most useful verbs, their conjugation's, usage of various moods, tenses, etc.

With that, and a good Spanish/English dictionary (or a Spanish language dictionary, depending on your level), I would recommend reading lots, particularly newspapers and literature. And then start writing. There's no way to learn grammar like using it.

Posted September 17, 2007 11:45 PM

The best way to learn a language is from a native girlfriend. At least it is more fun than a book or, god forbid, a DVD.

Posted September 17, 2007 11:50 PM

Take a time machine back to when you were 12 years old. Study Latin. You'll get by.

Posted September 18, 2007 12:06 AM

As has been mentioned, Rosetta Stone is good to start with, but tails off as you reach the intermediate level. Language immersion courses in the country are good -- my boss went from zero to passable French in four weeks, and lived on the French Riviera to boot!

Chinotex:
Have you gone to www.chinesepod.com? Great lessons from beginner to advanced. I highly recommend it. That said, you do need to come to China to get fluent. I've been here four years now and have finally passed the intermediate plateau. Best instructors: taxi cab drivers, waitresses and golf caddies.

Posted September 18, 2007 12:23 AM

Go on a Mormon Mission to the country whose language you want to learn.

Posted September 18, 2007 12:32 AM

I like books of example (real world) sentences, preferably organized by or including grammatical function. One of my favorites at the moment is called "Roots of the Russian Language" (George Z. Patrick, 978-0-8442-4267-5,) and all it is, is sets of example sentences for each of a half dozen or so words derived from a single Russian root. I bought it for vocabulary practice, but it turned out to be a great way of finding examples to illustrate principles from my grammar textbook. I probably have half of those sentences on flashcards, divided into piles by grammatical principle.

I also recommend the 500 Verbs series, and older books in general, and reading books and publications you're already very familiar with in English. My church puts out a magazine in dozens of foreign languages as well as in English, and since it takes longer for me to get the Russian articles, I've read the English ones three or four times by the time the Russian one gets here, and I end out reviewing/learning new grammar just from my on-the-fly translation efforts.

Be careful, though, with anything idiomatic: every language breaks its own rules when it comes to poetry and scripture and the like.

Posted September 18, 2007 12:47 AM

(1) Conjugate, conjugate, conjugate. Get one of the 201/501 Spanish Verb books and drill through the verb forms for each verb. The first trick is to learn how to use all those verb forms correctly in English; the second trick is to get down the pattern itself in Spanish. Irregulars will come with time and practice.

(2) Study the grammar. Two possible books are Spanish Verbs and Essentials of Grammar (Ina W. Ramboz, Passport Books, 1993) and Side by Side: Spanish and English Grammar (Edith & Frederick Farrell, McGraw Hill, 2004). The latter book is great if your technical grasp of English grammar is a little rusty.

(3) Put polish on your Spanish. Two useful books are 1001 Pitfalls in Spanish (Marion Holt & Julianne Dueber, Barrons, 1997) and Guide to Spanish Idioms (Raymond Pierson, Passport Books, 1996).

(4) Find someone to work with you. During two years in Central America (as an LDS missionary), the single greatest improvement to my Spanish came during a 5-week period when I had a missionary companion from Guatemala, Elder Mora. He rarely spoke English to me (and rarely let me speak English to him), and he constantly drilled me on both grammar and pronunciation.

Hope this helps. ..bruce..

Posted September 18, 2007 12:50 AM

Fernando makes a good, different point. When I would be dating a Chilean girl, my motivation to learn Spanish and get better increased tenfold. Just a couple weeks at one point I think I doubled my vocab...

Posted September 18, 2007 1:03 AM

I have found that I need formal instruction in grammar, and Attila the Hun for a tutor. I had that in French, German, and Russian. AFTER getting the basics in grammar and vocabulary, things fall into place with practice in country. Without the basics, an adult like me finds it hard to create structure out of hearing words. We do NOT learn the way children do.

Posted September 18, 2007 2:25 AM

I'm relearning Spanish after studying it in high school 35 years ago. I'm trying a variety of methods and have learned one thing: Motivation and discipline are far more important than the method used.

Posted September 18, 2007 2:59 AM

I have tried various books & software but they were all missing 1 thing - a human teacher. Now Im learning modern hebrew through www.hebrewonline.com and its totally awesome!!! I cant believe I can read and write all them funny squiggles!! Awesome I tell you!!
I think its also vitally important to have a schedule and to stick to it!

Posted September 18, 2007 5:51 AM

I found an old copy of Borges' Ficciones printed in Spanish on one page and English on the facing page. I assume they do this w/ other literature as well. Along with a pocket Span/Eng dictionary and the 500 Verbs, I really started reading and writing Spanish fairly well. Still can't keep up with Sabado Gigante, but I couldn't keep up w/ the game shows when I was living in Costa Rica either.

Posted September 18, 2007 5:53 AM

There's the 'Life of Brian' method: Have a Roman centurion lecture you on grammar while they hold a sword to your neck ..

Romanes Eunt Domus?

You'd learn the vocative plural really quick(ly).

Posted September 18, 2007 7:37 AM

I took several years of high school German. Then I moved to Germany (Thuringia). Whole different story. I learned my grammar watching politicians "debate" in the Bundestag on TV. They mostly didn't say anything, but they said it well. I picked up my vocabulary by shopping and listening to music, and polished my grammar by watching politicians.

Posted September 18, 2007 7:43 AM

You don't mention how much training you have in languages overall. That can make a difference in how effective various approaches are for you.

If you stick with it, the Pimsleur comprehensives are the best audio-only courses available. Pimsleur was a pioneer researcher of language acquisition and the courses were developed out of that research. If you really want to master Spanish, buy a used Comprehensive 1 set of CDs from ebay or from one of the online stores that gives a credit to the next set when you send that one back. (Or see if your local public or university library has one to borrow.)

You will be bored to tears during the first 10 lessons or so, but stick with it. Use it while you drive or rip it to an MP3 and take it with you when you jog or wait for a train. Even while doing household chores. Then slow down for the later lessons.

Pimsleur's research demonstrated that we learn a language by anticipating a bit as to the meaning of a word or grammatical construct, based on prior learning. The result is that you will internalize when/where to use quisiere, for instance, and only later will the patterns of subjunctive use become conscious.

Which is how we learn as children. And, unless you're a linguist or otherwise trained in analysis of language structures, the best way for adults to learn as well.

Posted September 18, 2007 8:24 AM

Fernando has it absolutely right. I studied French for years and have forgotten all of it. I studied German for 5 weeks, while at the same time getting into a relationship with a German whose english was rather poor. Result: after 4 years I am reasonably fluent in German. My subjunctive is wonderful, although I still get the nominitive and dative confused.

Of course I live and work in Germany, which doesn't hurt.

Incidentally, I tried Pimslur and found it irritatingly hearing-based. I needed to see the words written down, at first.

Posted September 18, 2007 9:05 AM

Wow. What a nice group of erudite comments - isn't the internet something? I feel like we should get together and raise a barn or something, maybe esperanto could be our lingua franca? (Pun intended).

Having a girlfriend who speaks a foreign language natively, or wanting one, is great motivation. But what if you are married, alas...

DD

Posted September 18, 2007 9:23 AM

I tried Rosetta Stone for Spanish. It does not have any translation, grammar or conjugation instructions so it will be very hard to go beyond the basics with it. There is no way to be fluent with it. Their program is based on the same thing where you see these 4 pictures over and over again. I was disappointed especially for the price I paid.

My college uses a software called TeLL me More, by Auralog. It covers not only the basics, but also intermediate or advanced level. It is also a lot less repetitive. My goal was to become fluent so it was perfect for me and I bought their individual version. It has a lot of different activities: picture/word association, videos, dialogues,..., includes also grammar and conjugation. It has also more content than any other language software. Their speech recognition is great so you can have a dialogue with the computer. You can check out their website at http://www.auralog.com for a free demo and compare too. You can check out independent reviews on the web too Top Ten Reviews or about.com websites.

The best way to learn a language would be through immersion, visiting these countries. Learning a language will require some time. In addition to software, you can have books which are useful as well. Audio CDs like Pimsleur for instance might help you out but you cannot get any feedback on your pronunciation so I did not like it so much

Posted September 18, 2007 9:54 AM

Being married to a Belgian who speaks 4 languages and understands another 3, I can tell you there is only one way to become proficient and that is total immersion. You have to find a way to "stop" speaking, and even "thinking" in your first language. I went to a full week total immersion in Nederlands (Dutch/Flemish) at Ceran in the Ardennes. No English was spoke even if that is all you knew! You learn quickly when no other language is spoken except the one you are there to study.

Posted September 18, 2007 9:56 AM

I worked through the first level of Rosetta Stone for Hindi before going to India. I'll try to give it proper credit for what it did: it was helpful but not sufficient. It's good for learning vocabulary and common phrase / sentence / question-response patterns (not just individual words). I will say that what I learned through it stuck with me extremely well. But I, like you, find that I need to study the grammar of a language more formally/specifically once I'm past the basics.

In your case, Rosetta Stone (at least at the level I experienced it) wouldn't do much; it would duplicate what you've already gained through immersion. It's designed to teach through pseudo-immersion when you're not actually immersed.

Posted September 18, 2007 10:37 AM

I have used the Pimsleur courses to get started in Portuguese, Spanish, Mandarin Chinese, Russian and Polish and to review French and German. The courses are all excellent, and my only regret is that more levels and languages aren't available. If Pimsleur courses are available for the language you want to learn, you should begin by going methodically through all available Pimsleur lessons, spending at least an hour a day per lesson. When you complete all the available courses -- 90 lessons for the common languages -- you should review, concentrating on any lessons that are giving you trouble, and then move on to a college level textbook. You will make rapid progress in the western European languages, ie, 90 lessons in about 4 months, but eastern European languages will take longer. Chinese is so difficult that it took me 6 months to master 30 lessons.

Posted September 18, 2007 11:35 AM

Rosetta Stone s-u-c-k-s.

I don't understand all the comments about how it is good, even at a low level. I bought Rosetta Stone for Arabic and after a few hours of insane boredom, it taught me maybe six words. I did know those six words really well though!

Rosetta Stone sucks for two primary reasons. The one mentioned already, which is that it doesn't give you any grammar skills. And then the second reason is that it is brain-numbingly boring.

Posted September 18, 2007 12:11 PM

Robert,

I wouldn't worry too much about self-discipline when it comes to reading the grammar book.

I have a little intermediate-level Spanish grammar book called _En Breve_. I never sat down and did exercises or anything; that struck me as unnecessary perfectionism. I just read it and decided that I would use whatever I remembered and not worry about what I forgot. Every few months when the mood struck me, I used to read it again and remember a little more than I did last time. No self-discipline required.

Another great book if you haven't come across it is _Breaking Out of Beginner's Spanish_. That's the book that helped me feel more comfortable using the subjunctive.

P.S. My little grammar book was a gift from a college Spanish professor who had dozens of textbooks that had been sent to him by publishers. When I showed up at his office and asked him for recommendations for how to improve my Spanish, in addition to free advice he gave me four free textbooks. That technique might work for you, too.

Posted September 18, 2007 1:26 PM

I'd second the recommendation of Side by Side: Spanish and English Grammar as a good grammar reference.

I'd like to piggyback on your question to ask this wise group of language students if they know of any software that would allow me to build my own vocabulary and grammar quizzes/drills/reviews. I'd like to be able to go a dictionary of words and select ones I've learned (or add ones not in the dictionary) as well as choose from a checklist of grammar and verbs that I'd like to review.

This would be more helpful to me in learning than using the “hand holding/structured lesson” approach, as I am trying the "learn by living with" approach where I pick up words and grammar/verb needs ad hoc during daily conversations with her family.

By the way that method really works the best if you're dating the person in question in THEIR country. As we’re in the US, my language partner tends to want to talk with me in English, so I'm really relying on the need to communicate with her mother to drive my learning.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Gil

Posted September 18, 2007 2:23 PM

After buying books and tapes and such, I found that the only way to get motivated was to suck it up and sit in an actual classroom. My next Spanish class starts Thursday; I know I'm going to be sad that I didn't study while there was no class in the summer...

Posted September 18, 2007 3:38 PM

For Gil,
To build your own vocabulary quizzes, I'd recommend Before You Know It (byki.com). It's a language flashcard program that both shows the words and plays the sound when the cards come up. The website has a freebie version with set content, but if you buy the program, it will let you put in your own lists and attach sound files to the cards.

If you really want to go on the cheap, there's a freebie program called jMemorize:
http://jmemorize.org/
I think the $40 for byki is worth it for ease of use, though.

For grammar drills, of course, you'd just need to create a set of flashcards that isolate your recognition of grammatical features instead of vocabulary items, eg,

hablo - I speak
habla - he speaks
habló - he spoke

Best of luck with whatever you use.
Geoff

Posted September 18, 2007 3:51 PM

For Gil,
To build your own vocabulary quizzes, I'd recommend Before You Know It (byki.com). It's a language flashcard program that both shows the words and plays the sound when the cards come up. The website has a freebie version with set content, but if you buy the program, it will let you put in your own lists and attach sound files to the cards.

If you really want to go on the cheap, there's a freebie program called jMemorize:
http://jmemorize.org/
I think the $40 for byki is worth it for ease of use, though.

For grammar drills, of course, you'd just need to create a set of flashcards that isolate your recognition of grammatical features instead of vocabulary items, eg,

hablo - I speak
habla - he speaks
habló - he spoke

Best of luck with whatever you use.
Geoff

Posted September 18, 2007 3:52 PM

well I've been working on Japanese for about a year (mainly vocab and "alphebets") I've been using Rabbit Press Japanese flashcards for both Kanji, Katakana, and Hirgana. They're actually pretty good, I've learned a lot from them. I'm now starting to get more into sentence structure/speaking and am trying Japan Times' Genki: Elementary Course in Japanese. The pro is that you're getting practice at reading sentences, practing vocab, listening to coversations, stuff like that. The con is that its designed more for classroom useage rather than individual. I have used Pimsleur this is memorization through speaking. You dont learn much, but you learn it well.

If you're trying to learn more indepth, I'd suggest you use a book that has an acompanying CD or CDs rather than Rosetta Stone. That shit sucks.

Posted September 18, 2007 5:33 PM

Rosetta Stone is good for vocabulary building. I haven't learned much grammar from it. I'm using the Arabic Rosetta Stone, and its biggest problem is that there is no dictionary in English of the words they introduce. If it's not evident from the picture -- and it often isn't -- I have to look it up in an Arabic dictionary, no easy task. It's best feature is that you can slow down what is being said, but this isn't very convenient to use, so I seldom do.

Pimsleur is pretty good for a beginner, but I don't know what use it would be for someone who already knew a lot and merely wanted to learn some grammar.

Maybe you should hire a tutor.

Posted September 18, 2007 8:05 PM

So many possibilities. First, if you haven't already, read Barry Farber's "How To Learn Any Language" and don't EVER wait to start other languages! Overlap is fine.

Posted September 18, 2007 9:18 PM

I have worked on a general purpose learning software program. It is basically flashcards that are automatically scheduled for review, depending on memory performance. Available libraries are limited, so it's a matter of entering the data you want to remember. Plain, text, formatted text, images, and audio are the content options.

Check out www.EllaZ.com

Posted September 19, 2007 1:47 AM

lenin, the mass-murderer, said you have to "break the back" of a language. learn the rules of syntax, learn how to conjugate the verbs, a basic vocabulary and so forth. then you'll have a framework into which to fit your "immersion". that killer certainly lived in enough countries while an exile to know a thing or two about it.

Posted September 19, 2007 6:41 AM

Hi folks,

What is everyone’s favorite site to help learn Spanish and French? I’ve been looking around, but haven’t found any sites that have good exercises.

Thanks,
Cecille

Posted September 19, 2007 7:18 AM

Cecille,

I wouldn't recommend trying to learn two languages at once. One is hard enough. If you start with Spanish, after you think you've learned it, try reading "Platero y yo" by Juan Ramón Jiménez. If you understand it, you learned enough to get along. Don't even think of reading "Don Quijote de la Mancha" by Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra. Nobody can understand it in the original.

Posted September 20, 2007 1:22 AM

Here's my advice for someone in Robert Mayer's position. Buy the book A Comprehensive Spanish Grammar by Jacques de Bruyne and Christopher J. Pountain, and carry it with you everywhere. It is divided into 1322 sections ranging in length from two sentences to two pages, which makes it very easy to dip into during otherwise wasted moments, such as standing in line, etc. -- to borrow an idea from Barry Farber's book. Without devoting any extra time to reading, simply recuperating time you would normally waste, you can finish the book in a few weeks while allowing yourself to think over what you're reading. Do this two or three times over the next year or two, and you will have a pretty good grasp of Spanish grammar and usage.

In addition, look up good authors who write articles and books about Spanish usage. For Portuguese, I have found Pasquale Cipro Neto, Luiz Ant�nio Sacconi, and the Liceo Liter�rio Portugu�s very helpful. Some excellent Spanish equivalents are the book Minucias del Lenguaje and its sequel Nuevas Minucias del Lenguaje, by Jos� G. Moreno de Alba, president of the Mexican Language Academy. These two books are collections of articles the author has written about Spanish usage. Also, Amando de Miguel writes a daily column on Spanish usage called La Lengua Viva at [url]www.libertaddigital.com[/url] . You will find a lot of good material at [url]http://www.elcastellano.org/[/url] as well.

You can pick up grammar and usage by reading any well-written Spanish, but it takes more time to learn through inference, which is why I recommend that you concentrate initially on materials that are about the language itself.

I have a couple of suggestions for choosing reading materials that are not language commentaries. These are based on mistakes I have made. First, read books and articles that are written in Spanish by skilled authors; do not read translated works. A translation will not carry the style, flow, and texture of an original work, and it's especially bad when you are reading something that was translated from English and you find yourself being distracted by thinking about how the original text may have been worded. Second, choose subjects that you are truly of interest to you, beyond the purpose of learning Spanish. Don't put yourself through the drudgery of reading books and articles that you are not otherwise interested in. For French, I've been printing out and reading art commentaries from the Louvre's outstanding website, and find it exhilarating to reread the same article half a dozen times for repitition-- each pass reveals more about the language, and more about the work of art as well.

Posted September 20, 2007 12:23 PM