The Mother of All Protest Babes Takes Power in Ukraine

This was a monumental, momentous election.

It was about shaking the sovok legacy, the sovok dust, off the people in Ukraine.

The Party of Regions was using "stabilnist," an old Stalinist slogan, as part of its election campaign.

What's interesting is that every one of the major blocs was using American advisors.

Yanukovych and PoR were using Paul Manafort and company - and when it became clear that they were losing percentages, they fired him - but refused to admit it.

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, and the PoR is just a bunch of old sovoks, trying to use American-style catch phrase. They fooled noone, except the New York Times.

Notice that Yanukovch referred to "pragmatice" forces - not "democratic" forces. He is demanding that the Party of Regions, as the leading vote-getter, have the right of negotiating the formation of the government - which totally ignores the united front of the Tymoshenko and Our Ukraine-National Self-Defense blocs.

The hard-core sovoks that still vote for the PoR weren't fooled, because "stabilnist" and harking back to glorious Stalinist or sovok times is what they are addicted to.

James Carville and company showed up, on the Our Ukraine side.

Tymoshenko worked very, very, very hard.
So did Lutsenko on the Our Ukraine side.

It rapidly became evident that even in Eastern Ukraine, they were attracting far larger crowds than Yanukovych.

Tymoshenko's approach was sneered at by Yanukovych's camp as "populism."

But it worked.

Now we're just waiting for the vote counts from the Luhansk and Donetsk regions, which are being held back for some mysterious reason.

Kind of reminds one of what they used to do in Texas, when Lyndon Johnson first ran for Congress, and the old famous "Box 13" incident.

Posted October 1, 2007 9:52 AM

Just for argument's sake, what if the long term interests of "our side" lie in having a great strong, neo-czarist Russia, tied to the West by economics, mutual enemies and common heritage, whose borders more or less resemble those of the USSR?

Posted October 1, 2007 9:55 AM

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Posted October 1, 2007 11:10 AM

ARMCHAIR:

Just for argument's sake, what if they don't?

Are you suggesting we sacrifice Ukraine to Russia the way France sacrificed Czechoslovakia to Hitler? France didn't exactly come out of that well, you know.

You seem to routinely forget the abiding hatred Russians have for basic American values. Perhaps you're suggesting we reject ours and adopt theirs? You've yet to come up with a single shred of evidence of any good faith desire on Russia's part to tie itself to the West for any purpose other than stabbing us in the back.

Posted October 1, 2007 11:10 AM

armchair

your question, even for argument's sake, makes no sense whatsoever.

Ukraine's election is momentous.

It is practically the first time in centuries when Ukraine (overlooking geographical differences over the years) has decided its fate within its own borders, by its own citizens.

It is the first time in centuries that a truly democratic Ukrainian government has a realistic chance of continuing to develop.

In Russia, the people have agreed to be treated like idiots, all for the sake of some sort of "Oily Mother Russia Orthodox Neo-tsarist neo-sovok glory."

The only country that is interested in another USSR is - Russia.

There is no - I repeat, no - other country of the former sovok union that is interested in re-living the huge sovok cesspool.

Posted October 1, 2007 11:19 AM

I am in Ukraine often and only see locally what "seems" to be happening. I do not represent this as the truth of what is happening, It's only my perception of "What Is". The older people who were under communism seem to look back and desire the "old ways". I believe this to be for economic reasons. They got just a little, but they did get it. The young however look at the future and see first their own new identity and secondly the dream of acquiring much more (grevna) than they could under the old system. Both groups look on outsiders as outsiders. You can come to our country and voice your opinions but we will determine what is best for ourselves. In a way they seem to be a little cocky and then again I think "How would I feel in their shoes about these circumstances." The last factor I see is not going away overnight. The people who see the changes happening but ignore them as much as possible. It is what I term "old thinking" and it will not change quickly.
It is just the way things are in Ukraine.
I also expect great things for the peoples of Ukraine. With or without outside intervention these people still have a destiny of their very own. I pray the love of Jesus Christ is part of that destiny.

Posted October 1, 2007 12:15 PM

LaR, Elmer,

I was speaking very narrowly and selfishly about what might be in the interests of the USA. What the people of the former fraternal republics--or whatever the jargon was--think about being returned to Russia is besides my point. The world is a sad place sometimes.

As to whether Russians hate American values or not, I'd like to know if they hate them for Russia or hate for America. The first case is perfectly acceptable. I say Tomato, you say Toomawto. I have a president, you have a czar, so what?

But you're quite right. I haven't a shred of evidence that Russia would deal in good faith, but that question is step 2. I was still at step 1, which is to ask: Have the USA and Oily (good one!) Mother Russia common concerns and could they be the basis for a private chat?

Posted October 1, 2007 12:40 PM

Armchair,

"I say Tomato, you say Toomawto."

No, a better analogy would be: You say Tomatoe and I say - What part of "The Kremlin killed 80 million in the last century" do you not understand?

Posted October 1, 2007 12:54 PM

armchair

Ask any Georgian. Ask anyone in the former sovok republics and satellites.

You cannot trust the Russian bear. Period.

"I have a president, you have a tsar" makes all the difference in the world, it seems to me.

Case in point - every sovok and pre-sovok tsar was hell-bent on proving the might and superiority of the sovok "nation," to the point of intruding all over the globe, including the Middle East, for example, and in sovok times, to the point of letting the people suck eggs just so the May Day parades would have lots of rockets, lots of tanks, and lots of other military toys.

If I have a president, those kinds of decisions are not made lightly, or without huge consequences and oversight and debate - and certainly, not at the expense of people having to be limited to sucking eggs unless there is a damn good reason.

Do the US and Oily Mother Russia have common concerns? Yes.

Could they be the basis for a private chat?

Well, yes, but not with Vlad Dracul at the helm, or anyone of his anointed Dracul successors.

And spanalot makes a very, very important point, which HAS to be taken to heart.

Another way to put it is this: Russians LOVE misery. Their own, and yours.

In the meantime, I cheer for and support the victory of the democratic coalition in Ukraine.

Even if the old sovok types don't like it.

Posted October 1, 2007 3:07 PM

The results remind me of Lincoln, secifically, "You can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't foll all of the people, all of the time." Except for NYT, of course.
Cheers to you Kim!

Posted October 1, 2007 10:50 PM

The New York Times motto:

"All the news that fits, we print"

Posted October 1, 2007 11:02 PM

It's all out in the open now. The Putin dictatorship and dream of empire has to be stopped now. And Tymoshenko has to put the coalition together to make it happen.

This time, there can be no losing sight of the main goal. Build a system of democratic institutions with accountability to the people.

There's a chance now.

Posted October 2, 2007 11:17 AM

Armchair's comments are very narrow and selfish indeed, and for a very good reason, I suspect. Namely, that he is Russian or of Russian heritage himself. That would well explain why he does not need any rational arguments to try and advocate collaboration with the regime, whose only essential difference from the Third Reich is that the latter is history.

Posted October 2, 2007 4:08 PM

RE: ...This was a monumental, momentous election....

...The Putin dictatorship and dream of empire has to be stopped now. And Tymoshenko has to put the coalition together to make it happen...

...In the meantime, I cheer for and support the victory of the democratic coalition in Ukraine....

Laughable.
And will be even more laughable soon.

I can not understand why all you, bunch of russophobic idiots here, are so excited that are pissing with boiling water?
What was special about this election? What was is the difference from the previous and the next one?
The Ukraine's political development is determined not by "Yulya" or by "Vitya", but by the realities this country have inside and outside.
Russia wants to restore the Soviet Union?Go Timoshenko, go! Stop it!
Hah-hah! Are you aware that when Boris Eltsyn was the President, Belorussian President Lukashenko worked hard to join Russia and Belarus in a "new" Union, with the same status for Belarus as she had in the USSR? And Russians refused? Despite the fact that Belarus has a lot of oil-pipes running from Russia to the Western Europe, and is positioned strategically for Russian security?

Poor, "wannabe experts", with a housewife as a leader.
What if we just talk about tennis?

Posted October 7, 2007 2:04 AM

"Are you aware that when Boris Eltsyn was the President, Belorussian President Lukashenko worked hard to join Russia and Belarus in a "new" Union, with the same status for Belarus as she had in the USSR? And Russians refused?"

Maybe because Lukashenko was a madman, and even Boris at his drunkest wanted nothing to do with him.

Posted November 8, 2007 9:24 PM