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Attaboy, Dubya!

Filed under: Georgia

We've had no hesitation on this blog in letting George "Dubya" Bush have it when he fell short of the mark in carrying through on America's democratic promise.

But let's be clear: This president has done many wonderful things for the country during his tenure, though of course he's made mistakes like all presidents do. Above all, he's kept this country 100% free of incidents of domestic terrorism since the 9/11 atrocity. That's no small thing.

And his response to Georgia's recent emergency has been right on the mark. Matt Bryza, assistant secretary of state for European affairs and the top U.S. official for the Caucasus laid out that policy clearly and simply over the weekend: "The president of Georgia has shown remarkable leadership. We trust in Georgia, the people of Georgia, the leadership of Georgia."

Russia denies seeking to upend the Georgian democracy and retake the country as a slave state just as in Soviet times. So what. Does anyone believe that the Kremlin would admit it if it were doing so? Russia evinces a pathological desire to restore the Soviet empire by any means possible. What we see in Georgia today is no different that what we saw in Czechoslovakia during the first cold war, and it appears the Bush administration understands this.

Pushing Russia out of Georgia can be one of the lasting positive historical legacies of the Bush administration. It's clear that Bush has not done enough to make it clear to Russia it will not be allowed to threaten Georgia's sovereignty, and this is the reason Russia has tried to do so (the same holds true in regard to Ukraine). That's another black mark on the Bush foreign policy record regarding Russia, but it's not too late to remove it. The administration must not squander the opportunity to salvage both democracy and its own reputation by drawing a line in the sand between Georgia and Russia.

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Comments


GFR says:

It's coups. It's not the usual americans this time, it's the ones who say they are democrats. The TV stations can be run by a podcast.


Vova says:

"Pushing Russia out of Georgia" is just a consolation prize. Pushing them out of the Eurasian landmass back into the stone age is the objective. That country cannot be reformed so it must be dismantled, its real estate returned to the peoples to whom it rightfully belongs--the fennougric nations first and foremost, the mari and komi and nenets and udmurt and mordvin and hanty and mansi and so on


Russian says:

La Russophobe says: Russia denies seeking to upend the Georgian democracy and retake the country as a slave state just as in Soviet times. So what. Does anyone believe that the Kremlin would admit it if it were doing so?

Here are excerpts from the article in The Independent linked by La Russophobe:
http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article3143254.ece

Mr Saakashvili's tactics drew a strong condemnation yesterday from NATO ...
"The imposition of emergency rule, and the closure of media outlets in Georgia, a partner with which the alliance has an intensified dialogue, are of particular concern and not in line with Euro-Atlantic values," the NATO secretary general, Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, said in a statement.

…Russian direct involvement in the latest events remained speculative last night. Although Russia has a history of covert – but blatant – interference in Georgia, diplomats said there was as yet no proof that this was the case in the Tbilisi unrest.

At a meeting yesterday with Georgia's Foreign Minister, EU ambassadors were given details of the taped conversation between two Russian diplomats and opposition leaders. "That's not proof," said a diplomat present at the meeting. "That is something that diplomats do all the time." The envoy added: "We've not seen anything else."

Other diplomats said that Mr Saakashvili may have other confidential material that he may share in order to prove Russian involvement. However, the mass protests organized by the opposition, …. appeared to be a genuine popular movement, with the opposition capitalising on widespread discontent with rising prices and economic hardship.

So, if Russia involved, Saakashvilly actions are justified. Than why the NATO is so critical?
Who is a fool: NATO or La Russophobe?


Aris Katsaris says:

"We've had no hesitation on this blog in letting George "Dubya" Bush have it when he fell short of the mark in carrying through on America's democratic promise."

Actually I only remember you bashing him when he fails to bash tyrants in other nations -- I've never see you bash him when he himself violates democratic principles (e.g. "signing statements", "abolition of habeas corpus", "authorizing torture" and the like).


La Russophobe says:

ARIS: You've forgotten that this blog isn't about domestic U.S. politics. There are plenty of other locations on the web where that kind of bashing can be found, and ask yourself this: Do any of them (or you) give the president due credit for his achievements? After all, it's a two-way street.

Having said that, you must have missed this for instance:

http://publiuspundit.com/articles/2007/04/bush_and_shamanov_sitting_in_a.php


La Russophobe says:

RUSSIAN BEAR:

You really are priceless. You're like this blog's little jester, dancing in cap and bells for our amusement.

The article you refer to is headlined:

"A victory for Russia's secret war"

Did you just miss that one honey?

The LR editorial you refer to clearly states that the president of Georgia deserves criticism.

Guess you must have overlooked that too, huh? Or was it that you simply didn't read it at all?

Can't figure out whether it's your dishonest or stupidity that is so breathtaking. Quite a poser, that one.

Meanwhile, the point is that the US leads NATO and just came out foursquare on Saakashvili's side. NATO, of course, will follow suit.

You and facts are like oil and water. Just like Russia and prosperity/freedom.


Vova says:

You say that "Bush has not done enough to make it clear to Russia it will not be allowed to threaten Georgia's sovereignty" and I don't think he will because he doesn't have the will. Chewing on lobster at Kennebunk is easier that having balls, and it's too late to grow them.
A slave society (Evil Empire) and a free society cannot coexist side-by-side. Georgia is intolerable, as Ukraine. Until the Empire is dismantled, there will be no peace. The task is to dismantle "Russia" before that ugly cancerous growth dismantles the neighbors, Georgia and Ukraine, but not only. The northwest should go to Finland and Estonia, some to Latvia, the west to Ukraine, the south of the European slice to the peoples of North Caucasus, and so on. You get the idea, imho


Aris Katsaris says:

The northwest should go to Finland and Estonia, some to Latvia, the west to Ukraine, the south of the European slice to the peoples of North Caucasus, and so on.

This is mostly inanities. Giving parts of Russia to Finland or Estonia or Latvia or Ukraine wouldn't ensure those countries' security. Moving borders to the west wouldn't make those borders secure. It would only cause real and legitimate grievances in the people of Russia -- tools for future warmongers to use -- as if they didn't already have enough imaginary and illegitimate grievances to use!

All around that part of your suggestion is counterproductive and would play into the Kremlin's hands.

The only part I can agree with is giving Northern Caucausus to its native peoples -- but this has nothing to do with threats to *Georgia*, and everything to do with the way that Russia has proven brutal to the people of Northern Caucasus (Chechens in particular) themselves, and has thus by its own deeds voided any claimed sovereignty on that region.


Vova says:

My idea of returning Petserimaa and Jaanilinn (and another 1 000 000 square miles as a prize) to Eesti, Abrene to Latvia (with a 1 000 000 square miles), Karjala to Finland, etc., is based on the assumption that the cancerous growth known currently as "Russia" will cease to exist. The people may stay--as foreign workers: men as laborers and toilet cleaners, women as queens


armchair pessimist says:

Practically speaking, the US and NATO have nothing to contribute to Georgia's defense except big words.

And, looking ahead to our own not so distant future, there may come a time when the people of our SouthWest may wish to no longer be part of the United States. So I am very suspicious of our policy towards Russiaon this subject.
It may come back to haunt us.


Aris Katsaris says:

Yes, Russia is not in good relations with Georgia. Like USA and Venezuela, for example.

False analogy. I don't remember USA having cut away two large pieces of Venezuela, maintaining troops on its soil, and ethnically cleansing hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans.

I do remember Russia doing that on Georgia, though. Fancy that.

About "enslaving" Georgia by Russians-watch your tongue. Stalin and his omnious Security (KGB) Chief (since 1939 till 1953) Lavrentiy Beria were Georgians after all.

One of the few things about the early Soviet Union that the neo-Soviets despise, it seems -- not its tyranny, but rather the fact that even non-Russian could ascend to the top.


Aris Katsaris says:

"ARIS: You've forgotten that this blog isn't about domestic U.S. politics."

First of all -- how the US army behaves to non-US citizens is not "domestic US politics", it's international US politics. The torturers of Bush aren't a domestic triviality (like Louisianan attitudes on stem-cell research - issues that interest you more), his torturers are a vile abomination that stains the whole of the West feeds the Islamistofascist machine and diminishes our chances of survival as a civilisation.

Secondly -- if this blog isn't about domestic U.S. politics, then I suggest you pay less attention to the number of "domestic terrorist attacks" (a thing that signifies American parochialism, as if American civilian lives are worth more than Iraqi civilian ones) and bother to mention the number of terrorist attacks (and victims thereof) worldwide instead.

Thirdly and finally -- you are accusing *me* of forgetting it? Your Republican parochial partisanship has reached such insane lengths that one week ago you reported on a minor issue regarding the Virginian state elections. It has actually reached such insane lengths that you reported on how *Daily Kos* reported on the Virginian state elections.

You are transforming this blog to a mindless Republican cheering machine and proving false its claims to concerning global democratic revolution instead.


La Russophobe says:

ARMCHAIR:

Don't be such a pessimist! Who thought we could bring down the USSR without firing a shot? We out-man, out-money and out-gun the Rooskies overwhelmingly! The only thing we have to fear is fear itself! That's what their propaganda is trading on. Maybe you've been suckered?


La Russophobe says:

ARIS:

You've outrageously mischaracterized the content of this blog, highly ironic given the fact that you seem to call for fairness and accuracy. Your own comments are utterly one-sided, in case you didn't notice.

You chose to ignore my post about Shamanov, and you choose to ignore this one as well:

http://publiuspundit.com/2007/11/the_sunday_funnies.php

And this one is sharply critical of Bush:

http://publiuspundit.com/2007/10/obsessed_with_democracy.php

Just two posts from the current splash page that you utterly, unfairly ignore. There are 30 posts on the splash page right now, and only 2 can be characterized as praising Republicans or conservatives. Only one praises George Bush, and only two attack liberals. 25 of the 30 posts on the splash page right now have nothing to do with domestic U.S. politics or partisanship, and stay true to our main mission of championing democracy.

You've submitted no content to us, which we'd gladly consider publishing if you did, which basically means you are all heat and no light, all bark and no bite.

The Daily Kos lied to its readers, and the blogosphere has an obligation to police itself. We'll continue to do so, and we'll continue to criticize George Bush when deserved and support him the rest of the time.

The vast majority of the posts on this blog have NOTHING to do with the Republican Party or domestic U.S. politics, and if you claim the contrary you are a liar.

I'd like an apology, sir.


armchair pessimist says:

LaR,

How shall I say this?

Helas, for the most part I agree with the Rooskis. Certainly that their form of government is their business. Certainly that it is their right to supress rebellion and succession within their country, as it was Mr Lincoln's in another time and place.

As for the Georgians I feel sorry for them, but I look at our own southwest and am not about to say that a group or nationality that wants to detach itself should necessarily be allowed to do so. Our borders were established by conquest, bought and paid for by American blood. Were not Russia's bought with theirs?

In any event, the Georgians should bear in mind how many times we've stiffed other countries struggling to be free. East Europe after WW2. Vietnam. Cambodia. Iraq in '91. I think we'll soon see new names on this list of shame.

Lastly, Democracy. We push it like it's some universal patent medicine. One swallow and yer a free upstanding demmocracy. But democracy, to use the lazy shorthand for a constitutional republic, is the result of centuries of civic training and discipline. In their own time, other nations will reach it, or not.

But we cannot be the Dr Frankensteins of democracy creating strange unnatural monsters out of countries that just don't get it. The first attempt, the Shah's Iran, should have cured us of that.

Sorry, but that's how it is.


La Russophobe says:

ARMCHAIR:

You have more waffles than a house of pancakes! First you say we don't have the ability to intervene, then you say we don't have the right? Which is it?

Sorry, but you are just giving your own opinion, not the "way it is." You sound just as arrogant and messianic as you accuse us pro-democrats of being.

In fact, you sound vaguely like a cross between John Kerry and Neville Chamberlain.


armchair pessimist says:

In fact, you sound vaguely like a cross between John Kerry and Neville Chamberlain

Uncalled for, LaR. They always spoke highly of you.

Which is it? All of the above. We can't, we shouldn't, and I wouldn't even if we could and should. A skinned and quartered Russia is not in the USA's interests. Neither is a skinned and quartered USA in Russia's.

Now, LaR, please stop this warmongering. We have enough enemies on our plate as it is. Your Russia guests here are clearly quite fond of you. Why not use your charms to help them to see that the USA is not their enemy?


elmer says:

armchair:

Allow me to suggest that you are way, way, way, way, way, off base.

The form of government in russkie-land doesn't matter? I strongly beg to differ.

The form of govt in rooskie land previously was commienism, as you well know. When Khrushchev said "we will bury you," he was not just whistling Dixie. The rooskies were hell-bent on world domination.

Today, the rooskies are still making noises about world domination, to the point of Vlad Dracul Putin taking his shirt off to pose in weird pictures of him doing "manly" things, like holding rifles, or fishing rods, or other "manly" things with his shirt off.

Read Andrew Wilson's book, "The Ukrainians: Unexpected Nation", at page 294:

"A dramatic indication of how far this policy might take Ukraine came in June 1999 - when Kiev temporarily closed its airspace in response to the Russian attempts to reinforce its adventurous troop deployment at Pristina airport in Kosovo - and showed just how isolated Russia would be if Ukraine were 'lost' to teh West. Bulgaria and Romania cooperating with NATO was one thing, Ukraine quite another. Kuchma instantly rescinded the decision in the face of Russian fury."

The rooskies are STILl pissed about Slobo Mass Murderer Milosevic being taken down.

And, of course, there is the recent littel episode about rooskie airspace and Lufthansa airlines.

Rooskies have played the "Great Game" in the Middle East, notably including Afghanistan. Why? Just for the sake of feeling important, just for the sake of opposing Britain or anyone else merely for the sake of opposition, just for the sake of feeling important.

How many times have I heard rooskies whine about how "ungrateful" other countries are to the rooskies, because after all, the rooskies gave them "so much"? On another thread, you can see Russian whining about that very thing in relation to Georgia.

Russia conducts trade wars with just about everyone. It supplies nuclear materials to Iran - for what purpose.

Democracy does not take centuries. Other former sovok republics have developed in that direction quite nicely thank you, although not without problems.

Not so in rooskie land - Corporate Oily Orthodox Rooshah.

Russia's "borders" were bought with Ukrainian and other blood, armchair. St. Petersburg is built on the bones of Ukrainian cossacks, for example - literally.

And the way things are going in rooshah, there has been and will be more blood - for no reason except the ambition of Vlad Dracul and his KGB cronies to stay in power and rob the country blind for themselves.

That's the way it is, armchair.







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