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Conceivably, Russia could post an 8% rate of GDP growth this year. Seeing this figure, some benighted fools refer to the Russian economy as "booming."
Why fools? Well, for one thing, because Russia remains essentially a closed neo-Soviet state, the only information the world has about Russia's economy comes from the Kremlin (the above link from the Economist quotes the Kremlin's data extensively and exclusively, without asking even once whether the Kremlin, presided over by a proud KGB spy who spent his whole life learning how to lie, might be shading the truth). For another, a large part of Russia's economic growth is an accident, resulting from the rising price of crude oil on world markets. This price has absolutely nothing to do with increased productivity or ingenuity in Russia, which is why one typically looks to GDP growth in the first place. On top of that, Russia's own data, and current events, have recently revealed a massive problem with inflation and liquidity, as we've previously reported. And all that's to say nothing of Russia's demographic problem, which causes it to lose up to 1 million from its population every year (Russian men don't reach age 60 on average, while American men don't even retire from the workforce until age 65 or later, a huge productivity advantage).
But much more important is context. Yesterday, for instance, it was reported that the U.S. economy is on pace to post almost 4% GDP growth this year despite the drag effect of surging oil prices and the problems in the U.S. housing industry due to a speculation bubble. An idiot might say: Aha! Russia is outdoing the USA by a factor of two!
Context, my dear fellow, context! When the $12-trillion U.S. economy posts 4% growth, it adds about $500 billion to its total. This added amount is roughly one-half the value of the entire Russian economy, and works out to nearly $1,700 per American citizen. When the $1-trillion Russian economy posts 8% growth, it adds only $80 billion to its value -- a puny figure of less than $600 per Russian citizen. With an economy twelve times larger than Russia's but a population only twice as large, half the amount of GDP growth produces nearly three times more value per capita in the U.S. compared to Russia. This a race Russia can't even be competitive in, much less win, without even considering all the reasons why Russia's $600 figure itself is a gross overstatement.
As always, though, the idiots though still hold sway in Russia, and illusions are valued far more than reality. Hence, we see the Kremlin crazily provoking the U.S. into a new arms race.
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Comments
Artfldgr says:
here i come to lend a hand... : )
What I have noticed is that the people arguing where things are going, in general do not have a basis for their arguments. Or at least a clear line you can trace from their assertion to the basis for that assertion.
Russian and pedro and their ilk are using the basis of the dream of socialism, and that it will cost to get there, so they can ignore the bad, and say, as was in the past, soon it will be here, just let them do more.
LaRussophobe, comes at it from history, and judgement as if these are people she knows. She knows a lot of history, and knows that leopards cant change their spots. But can give no specific historical examples that can illustrate exactly what she knows in her heart (as do I)
So here is a bit of help… rather than just say… its like it was… lets go back a bit.. lets read about the same casted things in history… how it was is really not known. Its as if this history is a vague short story.. or the only history is the dry facts.
Lately I have been going through these things… in this case the most recent one I have been reading and is VERY pertinent was a red diaper baby, come communist, that went full circle. Freda Utley is her name.. and I refered to her before. She was an economist, and was part of the comintern… her CV is quite impressive in that she was well connected with the western socialists, and learned the truth by leaving the west, and going to live and marry a man in the great soviet union.
So the books that I have been reading are not her analysis of china, and the textile industry, but the two key books that describe her fall from grace. How her husband was arrested.. the innocent people she knew.. etc.
However, what you get from her writing, something you don’t get from the feminsits who claim that someone like her cant even exist (Freda went to many colleges and universities at the time when women supposedly were not allowed. And she got a better education, which is clearly evident in her references going back to great works that people don’t even know any more). ultimately, what you get is not the story that stalin and the ogpu went out and took people.
What you get is that the people knew what was going on around them, and they were totally helpless to do much about it. she gives you a sense of the things that made what we now talk about possible. the OPERATIVE part, that without it, allows people like rssian and pedro to make claims that are not supported by history.
With that I am posting an excerpt. Its from the chapter “tricks with statistics”, in her book “lost illusion” written in zxxx
Soviet propagandists have sought to throw dust in the
eyes of the world by their boasts as to the size of the new
factories and power stations. The planners of the Westem
world have faithfully mimicked them. It came to be
argued that if socialist construction in the USSR had
produced something larger than anything in the capitalist
world, then of necessity socialism was superior to
capitalism.
It was perhaps unconsciously felt that since the United
States, the most advanced capitalist country, had the tallest
buildings in the world, if Russia could produce the
biggest industrial enterprises she would somehow have
proved herself superior. This Asiatic conception of progress and grandeur has been accepted and adopted by many American admirers of the Soviet Union.
This is the mentality of the “cargo culture”, where they mimic but don’t actually do.
Their FORM is perfect, but the riches do not spring out of the magic of the form..
This was discussed a bit before here.
However here is the excerpt that is most pertinent to this discussion of the economics.
The social cost of the “gigantic successes on the industrial
front” cannot be calculated. For as early as 1930
the state Planning Commission was purged of the non-
Party experts capable of computing it. Thereafter it was
decreed that statistics must “play a practical part in the
war of Communism against Capitalism”; that there must
henceforth be only “class statistics.”
This was an indirect way of saying that statistics
henceforth should not be reliable, but should serve the
needs of progapanda. Since that date, statistics which
could not be manipulated to prove the successes of “socialist
construction” have simply not been issued at all.
Included are statistics dealing with prices, currency,
housing, and the cost of living.
The Soviet Government has discovered all sorts of ingenious
ways to delude simple-minded tourist friends
from England and the United States. When you visit a
factory in Russia, it is usual in reply to questions to be
given misleading statistics, the planned figure, not the
real one.
In the course of my work at the Commissariat of Light
Industry, I visited many textile factories. At Ivanovo
Vosnysenk, I was handed a production report by the
manager which I could not reconcile with what I had
learned in the weaving rooms from the workers themselves,
or with my experience at Promexport of what
this factory had been able to send to us for export.
At last, after I had questioned the manager until he
was weary, he exclaimed,
“Oh, I see now; you want the facticbiske figures, not
those po planu. All right, here they are.”
The factual figures turned out to be about 35 percent;
less than the theoretical planned statistics. Since I was a
foreigner, he had naturally given me the planned figures,
not the real ones, as that was the customary procedure
with visitors.
Successes are usually claimed on the basis of figures
stated in ruble values, not in units of production. The
statistics of production as given in rubles are useless since
prices are changeable and arbitrary. For instance, it may
be stated that the production of shoes in a given year is
to total 1,000 million rubles, as against 500 million in a
previous year. But no one knows, and no one can compute,
just how many pairs of shoes are made, or just
what the value of the ruble is going to be, or what it was
in the year used as a basis for comparison.
Again, if retail trade turnover figures in a certain
year are much higher than in the previous year, this does
not necessarily mean that more goods became available
for the consumers. There may have been fewer units of
goods, but the state may arbitrarily have increased its
profits on such sales by raising the price.
When Stalin, after the conclusion of the First Five
Year Plan, announced its realization as 93.7 per cent, and
said this meant that industrial production was three times
the pre-war figure, he implied that he was speaking of
volume or quantity. In reality he was basing his calculation
on arbitrary values translated into more or less
fictitious rubles.
No one knows therefore what was in fact accomplished.
In those branches of industry for which volume
or quantity figures were published, production fell short
of the Plan. This was notably the case with regard to
iron, steel, and electricity.
Coal, which made a better showing, was fourteen per
cent below the planned figure. Since the factories could
have fulfilled their production plans only if provided
with the necessary fuel and raw materials, it is obvious
that the shortages in fuel, iron, and steel production involved
the failure of other industries for which no figures
except the ruble value of their output were ever published.
It was claimed that the metal and machine-building
industries had greatly exceeded their planned figures of
production. Either this was a plain lie, or the Plan never
was a plan. An economy in which there was so little coordination
between the parts that the planned production
of iron and steel was vastly in excess of the planned
production of the heavy industries as a whole, cannot be
called a planned economy. Either there was no real plan
or it failed.
Soviet statistics have become more and more incomplete
and obscure in order to hide the failures. The “control
figures” in the basic industries appear to have been
slashed again and again in 1938 and I 939 to make it seem
that the Plan was being fulfilled ninety per cent whereas
in reality only about fifty per cent of the original
planned figure had been produced. Since 1939 no official
figures have been published.
Russia’s vaunted planned economy has in fact almost
ceased pretending to be anything of the kind. If year by
year and quarter by quarter, the Plan is altered to fit in
with the failure to execute it, and production in one
branch of industry no longer bears anything but a haphazard
relation to production in an allied branch, there
cannot be said to be a Plan at all.
Each industry is producing just what it can regardless
of the Plan, or its former capital investment, or its
theoretical capacity. Soviet economy is more anarchic
than a capitalist free enterprise economy.
The increased output of coal, iron, and steel prior to
the war was won at a human cost which no country not
ruled over by a ruthless and all-powerful despotism
could contemplate. It is also doubtful whether the development
of Russian heavy industry compensates, from
the point of view of national strength, for the degradation
of agriculture and the drastically reduced standard
of living and morale of the working class which accompany
it.
The official statistics do not reveal anything as to
quality of production. In the textile industry, in which I
worked, it was “normal” for eighty per cent of the cloth
to be defective. It was, of course, sold. But we had the
greatest difficulty in securing a sufficient quantity of undamaged
goods for export.
Stalin’s remedy for the disastrous results of the speedup,
undernourishment, and ignorance, was, of course
drastic punishments.
During the second Five Year Plan
he ordered five years’ imprisonment for bad workmanship.
The results of neglecting the human factor were most
clearly demonstrated by inability to increase the output
per worker. In spite of piece-work wages, threats, and
paltry rewards, the undernourished, badly housed, and
over-driven Soviet worker could not be forced to work
harder. It was physically impossible for him to do so.
The output per worker was planned to be increased by
IOO per cent during the first Five Year Plan. The result
showed that it can have increased little, if at all, since
the number of wage-earners, planned to increase from
I I ,3 million to I 5.8 million actually went up to 2 2.8
million. In other words, seven million more workers
were needed than had been estimated as necessary to
produce the f~lZ planned figures of production.
The cost of the “gigantic successes on the industrial
front”-the actual investment in industrialization during
the First Five Year Plan-came to I 20 milliard rubles instead
of the 86 milliard planned.
The finances of the country got into such a chaotic
state that the State Bank stopped publishing balance
sheets. The people paid through inflation and a sharp
rise in prices for the government’s underestimate of the
real cost of its planned investment, and for the terrific
wastage entailed by the Soviet system.
The rise in prices in the four and a half years of the
Plan gave the ruble only something like one-tenth of its
previous value insofar as commercial prices were concerned.
In view, however, of the rationing system and
the special distributors, the ruble had all sorts of values
depending on the social status of the purchaser.
So the signs are the same… they produce false numbers.. the power steel and resources industry is used to prop up the image… the guys at the top are being bribed in such a way that only continuing the devolution would be the most profitable for them and least dangerous. The economics reports are disappearing, or being changed… the transparency of the state is being blocked.
Here she comments as if she is talking about people here today… and her last comment in the paragraph confirms what Kim is trying to pass on.
Some American liberals go so far as to excuse even
the slavery practiced in Russia, such is their worship of
the machine and of planning. But for the most part, the
admirers of the Soviet Union stubbornly maintain, in
face of all the evidence to the contrary, that the industrialization
of the Soviet Union has been carried out
at the same time as an iwzprovement in working-class
conditions.
Of course, the nearer a country’s basic living level is to
zero, the more imposing can its progress be made to appear
if reckoned in percentages.
And here is where the outcomes led to.. which confirms the fears of Kim specifically in history… that if the flow of capital from these things stops, the rest will be put on the people to continue the largess so that the top can continue to be bribed and maintain leaderships.
Up to 193 2 the Soviet Government still could count
upon the enthusiastic labor of a section of the workers.
But after 1932 nearly everyone lost faith. Exhausted and
dissatisfied, the Russian workers are anxious to secure a
soft job instead of working hard. Moreover, two factors
militate against any possibility of repeating the effort of
I 928 to I 932. Too many engineers, technicians, administrators,
specialists of all kinds, have been killed in the
purges or are now human wrecks in NKVD slave labor
camps.
The qualified personnel inherited from the Tsarist
regime has been willfully destroyed by Stalin, and the
new Soviet intelligentsia has not the knowledge, experience,
or devotion to its work of the old bourgeois specialists.
Nor is there any longer any class left possessing
tangible wealth tihich can be seized to pay for new imports
of machinery.
All the gold in private possession came into the hands
of the Russian Government long ago either through
Torgsin or extorted by the tortures of the secret police.
Except for their privately owned livestock, there is no
longer anything left of which the peasants can be expropriated.
The standard of life of the workers cannot
be reduced further.
In a word, the Soviet Government had exhausted all
Russia’s fat, before the country was devastated by Nazi
Germany. The Kremlin must now rely on increased production
or foreign conquest to provide for necessary imports.
Increased production is precisely what cannot be
achieved under the Soviet system, which helps to explain
Russia’s growing appetite for looting foreign countries.
Now here is a communist… pointing out that Russia, was not the bastion of socialist and saving graces for the poor. That their claiming American imperialism, is because they cant distinguish between what America is doing now, and what russia was doing throughout its socialist history.
How could enterprises
function according to any kind of plan when managers,
accountants and clerks were being arrested by the
thousands and herded off as prisoners to cut timber or
slave in the mines under the NKVD guards?
Those who escaped arrest were too frightened and
demoralized to work efficiently. The decline in produc
tion was cumulative, since the less consumption goods
were produced the less incentive the workers had to try
to increase their earnings.
Above all, the Stakhanov system-the tremendous
speeding up without regard to its effect on men or machinery-
had the unavoidable result of decreasing production
from year to year as more and more machinery
broke down.
Despite all the disillusionment, the idea persists in
Western countries that Russia is a “socialist state,” still
sanctified even if she has sinned. The pathetic belief in
Russia of the die-hard Stalinists is based on their obsession
with the socialist formula. They argue that since
there is state ownership of the means of production and
distribution, there can be no exploiters in the Soviet
Union and the condition of the working class must have
improved.
I added this because its important to kims assertiont hat they are cowards. Like the quote in another thread asking why the germans are so wussy… the response from that smart grandfather was basic and natural… we killed them, so what was left was what?
We are talking not about people who haven’t grown up in that time. from the time the wall fell to now, only one generation of people has grown up.
ALL the rest, have experienced the other thing directly.
And since I can show that its the same thing, and that those in the past knew which way the wind blows, and BECAUSE of it survived…
They are only doing what now comes natural to them. what comes natural to a turtle.
My posts are long enough… so I guess that’s the best point I can make… without creating a dissertation for my thesis in political science and history. : )
Artfldgr says:
One again… Russian shows that he doesn’t know history, AND he shows that he doesn’t want to… but he DOES like to annoy us that do, and thereby think he can get a free education that way. give me a break.
I appreciate you knowlege of socialism, communism, and USSR economic development.
But why? Why 1930? Or 1932? Why First 5-year Plan? How all that stuff is relevant to the today's Russia, you may kill me, but I can not get it.
That’s easy…
George Santayana: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned
to repeat it." (*The Life of Reason*, 1905)
In fact, even HEGEL mentions it.
"Rulers, statesmen, nations, are wont to be emphatically commended to the teaching which experience offers in history. But what experience and history teach is this--that peoples and governments have never learned anything from history, or acted on principles deduced from it." (*Philosophy of History*, 1899).
And of course you don’t get it… your knowledge is incomplete and atomized. Meaning it’s a thousand discreet parts, and not a whole. You cant trace the FLOW of history, so you cant SEE it repeating. This is by design, because as is clear, you are doing what they want you to do (materialism) while thinking your own way to the solution THEY need. this turns you into a useful idiot that then goes out and tries to infect others, and it works, if the others have the same kind of atomized history, inability to reason through things, etc.
USSR and Russia are absolutely different worlds.
That is soooo not true, and that’s what you missed… that in true Stalinist form, the FORMS OUTCOME is the same the names words and terms are different. They realize that they can change the labels, which most people will get redirected, even if the label says go south to go north! That’s how strongly coupled to labels and not even if they are assigned right (which is why they can be fascist, and projectivly call someone that pejorative, and not ‘get it’. the label has no real meaning for it, but like a hurtful person who uses words like ni**er, and k*ke, etc.. they know it hurts the ones they throw it at, and it gets others to start throwing stuff to ‘just in case’).
You are coming to your conclusions by listening to the liars messages, but not watching what they are doing, and the RESULTS of those actions. How may roads are their to china? Thousands? hundreds of thousands? however once on each path, the END RESULT is the same…
This simple truth about the world and how it operates is kept from you by yourself. To think like this is to be sociopathic, or at least understand such. the sociopath sees people as objects and not as entities. socialist leaders tend to be sociopathic for many reasons, however you can see that the ideology is sociopathic in how it refers to, treats, and works with people. In the less socialist America of the past, the offices that would hire and fire people in a company were called “personnel offices”, however, after the ‘revolution’, they are now called “human resources”.
That’s a fundamental shift in HOW you look at something, which causes a fundamental shift in how you regard, treat, and manage that something, and its responses.
Now how does someone like me KNOW things in this system? well I was taught how, and Kim and others are trying to get you to SEE how. Hopefully so that you can oppose tricks and promote merit. Its really no more horrible than that, because nuance is the key to understanding the point of these writings and arguments.
No one wants negative outcomes for the people EXCEPT the Russian leadership, and they don’t actually WANT it, they are just indifferent to it.
Think long and hard on that…
The WEST does NOT see this as a zero sum game. even resources are not zero sum. Oh you can crow about not enough oil.. but we could easily double and triple our energy creation ability if we built NEW nuclear reactors (the new designs are incredibly good. even Chernobyl wouldn’t have been as bad as it was.. but for the fact that the Russian state skimped on a ‘containment vessel’. However there is much surmising that the accident was purposeful, as it allowed for a great amount of information that would be useful in judging the ACTUAL effects of a nuclear conflict, rather than the PRESUMED propagandics (which were states as a goal in the early 1950s))
As far as minerals… we can grab all we want from a solar system with enough material to make PLANETS.. the only thing stoping is that productivity is hindered because the socialists are still playing from an ideological viewpoint over 150 years old, and that view was based on a view that had no visionary concept of how much industry and science could actually do! marx never was able to fathom that our resources are unlimited, because we can leave the planet.
We are locked down presicely because CHECKISTS cant see past checklist beliefs that were originated in 1917 and the first few years!!!
USSR was an ideologically motivated state, population had a clear understanding of the role of their country, all her rulers were believers in the communist idea, that communism was the future of the mankind and the USSR had a messianic agenda to spread the communist system and udeology all over the world.
And you say that they are not run by that same ideology? then why gorbachevs quotes that they will never turn from that path.. why still have state organs of murder? The thing is that you do not have a clear enough picture of the past, and so you cant line up the two images and see that they are the same… the time is different, the people are only moderately different, their actions are the same, etc
Saying that stalin is a hero, and changing the textbooks in the school to reflect that is an ideologically driven thing… AND its an ideology that has no respect for the truth, or history.. which is to say that its still STALINIST!!!
Read chavez, and he still claims to want to make the new socialist man..
What you don’t realize is that capitalism is not an alternative ideology. in fact its not an ideology at all!!!
Through relativism, they have made it seem like its two ideologies battling it out, but its not. capitalism is a natural means of how animals trade and work resources. even monkeys do it. monkey gets meat… monkey comes back to group… female monkee wants and needs meat for a baby… female exchanges what she has in abundance that he likes (pleasure), and he exchanges what he has in abundance that she likes (resources).
When your friend says I will trade you x for Y, that’s capitalism. If you think the trade is good, and that you get something that you ant out of it in exchange for something you don’t want, how is that a bad thing? to the IDEOLOGY of Marxism it’s a bad thing because its not values THE WAY THAT THEY THINK IT SHOULD BE VALUED. However, note that they are not any part of the deal. They are just people with a different set of values and needs looking at a trade and judging from THEIR position that this was no right.
This is why revolution never happens. Because only the third parties are the ones not happy with things!!!!!!!! and the third parties are people with nothing better to do but judge others transactions, OR they are people who feel that they can have control if they can control transactions, and they can keep control, if no one has anything to transact with.
There is NO way to make the socialist things work naturally. Capitalism is like building a house of cards. The cards can be built into wonderfully complex but fragile things because the person building the house understands a group of principals.
Socialism denies those principals exist at all, and certainly denies that they are real, or are important. The leadership actually doesn’t care as they get more power the more incompetent the system is, and the people are convinces that they can build card houses just as huge just as complex, and totally ignore the principals. Even worse, their desire to set themselves a part and distinguish themselves from other systems takes a juvenile quality, and so they have to be the opposite of what they oppose. so they foment the 7 deadly sins, to be opposite Christian teaching. They foment class war to create a problem that they can blame on capitalism, but capatalists are the least class conscious group of all the political systems! What do they care who your dad is? what do they care what office of state your from? what do they care what money you have, or friends? ALL those thigns are class distinctions and American capitalists are or rather used to be blind to them. in the communist ideologies, these differences come with rewards and pujnishments. Your part of the siloviki, then you get lots of benefits, and business is guided your way (the way they imagein the west is).. you’re a drudge farmer from a no where place, do you get caviar to buy in your town? Or the same goods? In the US I can buy anything I want from anywhere, and live anywhere in the US and get it.
The think that irks the socialist wealthy in the west is that “they are not special because anyone can have what they have”.
Got that? that’s their reason… if any joe can buy caviar and get it, then is caviar special? Which is why in the west these people are fed a diet of over priced junk as that monetary ability is the only way they can pretend to have something everyone else cant.
Vanity, envy, greed, sloth, lust, wrath, gluttony
Its as simple as taking the virtues that were realized in the west as the things to hold up dear, and to push their opposites, and rather than the strong western moral culture, and honest capitalism and dealings… it all breaks down.
You can go through each one and you can show how the Russian leadership and socialist leaderships prmote those thigns instead of the opposite. In fact you can look and show how they have MANY programs to cover each.
Any browse through the wests main magazines and songs and theater and you can see that these things have now been glorified… you only have to read about nashi to see what they glorify, and it’s the same. this is the socialist program… there is NO others.
womens mags are about vanity, envy, and wrath… food mags and such are about gluttony, and envy… archetecurals are envy and vanity. Socialisms idea of work creates sloth…
ultimately like the Christian devil, they are only promising to give you your poison. (which is why the overly religious fixates on that).
It proposes to get rid of the sins by providing them to you… Russians say that with everyone equal, everyone is the same, and so vanity goes away… they say that they will redistribute wealth and anything unequal, and so envy will go away… they will banish business and trade, and so greed will go away. they will provide all perversions on tap, or power a little person wants, and so lust becomes meaningless since its fulfilled (presumptively since they don’t understand that the thing with that is that fulfilling it does not satiate it). they will smite and kill and destroy the people that think differently… that’s wrath… and they will fulfill all the food and such needs, that’s gluttony.
Their methods to end all this is to breed it out of existence, stamp it out, destroy those that exhibit it. and the party will make the sacrifice and force this biological change through their manipulation of resources, and the world environment as any good breeder would. Soon, humans might end up being as vacant and docile as penguins. Then the leaders will be like what sicne they don’t follow the program?
The western way to remove these things was self oriented…that the self and between people together as a functional and prosperous unit, will grow and want to be better
That was the main cause of the Cold War.
There was no private business in the USSR. Every worker was a state emploee, even if he or she was a shoes-polisher or a sidewalk sweaper.
Again, you don’t even know the history.
The main cause of the cold war was that russia doesn’t trust anyone and acts sociopathic and paranoid.
I have explained more than once that if you HAVE to live with someone like that your actions are different than if you can move or get rid of them. if your moral concept is self determination, then the funny thing is that you cant interfere with russia, but becasuie they interfere with other states, you get to interfere in only those locations.
I posted the link to the document that started the cold war. Did you take the time to read it? it doesn’t say anything that most think it does. it doesn’t talk about how dangerous russia is, or could be, its not a very scary document.
What it says is, that as long as they want to think this way and do think this way, there is no way to honestly deal with them (which to capatlists is the true goal of all deals! Mutuial happiness that leads to more of them.. which leads to prosperity for all greater than before, but not the same).
And when russia fell, the reason the west stepped up was precisely because they thought that they would stop thinking this way. this is why golytsin can say the fall was planned, because the Russians got everything and more than they wanted.. the west gave in as if they did change, and the reason we are here discussing this at all is that russia didn’t change.
You didn’t ask yourself why is there such discussion at all, if things have changed? Why is it not a done deal. Take a look at the difference between north korea and south korea at night from space. It’s a done deal, no way to argue… but here we are, and the rest of the world and we are arguing it because russia has not had even similar growth as china or south korea in many times the time frame!!!
Its not a bitter thing from the west, after all, china works with the west? The whole cold war was just holding them down till they stop thrashing about.. the past 20 or so years has been letting them up again to see what they will do… will they grab weapons, and play games and start lots of trouble and misery? Or will they mature, straighten up, see the big picture and make it better for everyone making the money spent on military a waste?
Well, they certainly are acting like a crazy person who was held down, and when let up went right back to using the space to rant and go crazy again! so guess what? eventually the world will hold them down again… meanwhile, the world is NOT holding china down, and china was in worse shape than russia!
As far as your assertion as to no businesses and such… and payment.. that would depend on what year and ruler and what plans they had. This has waxed and waned for several reasons… in the past sometimes it was to figure out who was still capatliast and hiding. Like turning out the lights and waiting for cockaroaches to come out… then step on them when they do. which is why the older people are still not changed. They have seen it before. And they don’t want to be players in the next game of putin plays whackamole.
Russia does not have any ideology, and they have mostly private businesess and corporations there, and their goal is to make money.
This is an untruth. While the Russian people might want what you say, its clear the leadership has absolutely no such goal. they are only trying to yse the means of production that they have control over, to reap the rewards for the party. The party being the future of russia, since the party is the only group that is vetted as working towards the goals with purity. You don’t get that the average person is not seen that way and so they are totally disposable without regard to them, but only with regard for the needs of the party.
So the people are a resource for the party… they are not the people of socialist concous that are representatives of the new man that springs forth. they are resources and material to be used to that end, but they are not part of that end!!!!
That’s why 54 million went poof! Because they all were just resources for the party to use for the furtherance of communist socialism for those that are with the program. Everyone thinks that when they say “the people” that they are referring to these resources, but they are not. this attitude is still prevalent as is the paranoia or else they would just let loose the reigns that prevent it.
Which is the part that a person who thinks capitalism is an ideology doestn get. that a constant force HAS to be applied to prevent this productive engine from running and spitting out things!!! it runs itself because it stems fropm our biology like a miracle.
The only thing one needs to do to have prosperity is leave the people alone and don’t stop them!!!!!!
If they are not being prosperous, something is in their way that is too costly for them to get around and still profit. That’s the only limitation…
And you cant see that the same paranoia, posturing ans such that kept Lenin and such from getting expertise capital and trust from industrialized countries, then, is the same thing that is stopping them now.
The party thinks that the lumpen proletariat are tools for their use and not INDIVIDUALS who are to be EQUALLY respected!!! (no matter what they say, this is the truth of their actions, policies, and such).
Even in the US the movement to the GROUP is not a movement that will make politicians and the super wealthy on par with the masses. These people will remain individuals thorugh such a thing… it’s the useless masses that they have now focused on as the problem!!!!!!!!!!!
or why else would doctor planka get a standing ovation for suggesting ebola be used to eradicate the population to just 10% of it? why is that also the green parties implied outcomes too? and why do feminists push eradication till 10% of male population.
Easy, because they all are on the page of the ideology that says that’s the goal, but all of them think that their group is not a part of it. not realizing that every group is EXCEPT the party and the bankrollers and doers that have already proven themselves, some of them through more than one generation.
Its comical that you can claim russia doesn’t have an ideology and then note something that you think is wrong, which comes from ideology… shows you how much the horses thinking matters when the leader turns the horses head. No matter what the horse thinks, I moves in the way the leader says.
I am trying to get you to look from the view of the driver, and not the horse. The horse will always justify and make right their situation in some way rather than admit the truth of that situation. (note that in this you’re the horse).
Of course, if you think Bill Clinton was a communist anf Hilary is, all my efforts to knock up to your head are futile ones.
Was? no IS.
What are you trying to knock up to my head? I have posted what THEY have written, said and done… perhaps the reason is that I believe what they say about themselves when they slip and let things out more than I believe you who doeosnt even know their own history and facts and such!
You only have to read about Bill and his early start and how he was with Fullbright, and such. you don’t know your own history, you get all the facts mish moshed, you cherry pick to falsely prove your point, and you don’t like that I don’t believe you when you assert something.
That’s the kind of junvinile way of looking at the world that I have reffered to. Int his case, the idea is that all ideas are equal. No, they are not, your wrong ones, remain wrong, if they have no merit, their facts are baseless, and they are not germain (among lots of other reasons, like the habitual use of false arguments. Baiting statements, etc).
Hillary speaks all the rhetoric, she says whatever needs to be said to get power (as her recent flub shows), her thesis paper was that marx was right, but is not available.. her practices have been to take money from foreign entities in a way that in the past she would have been tried as an operative… and the democratic party is communist socialist. She is an avowed feminist, and feminists at that level claim that ony a communist state will give them what they want (cause only a communist state willl use totalitarian control to impose realty by will in disregard to reality itself).
To quote something your not getting
In 1917, Lenin's political slogan wasn't "Socialist Dictatorship! Firing Squads and Gulags!" It was "Bread, Land and Peace."
Was it? but that’s what they got.. and got that from day 1… as the organs of terror and control were made before the first 14 days even passed!
She and her husband have been mired in scandal after scandal, and because they are not on the right, they have been able to keep slipping away on it, as the left is delusional enough to condem Hitler, but love stalin.
The first truth about leftist missionaries, about believing progressives, is that they are liars. But they are not liars in the ordinary way, which is to say by choice. They are liars by necessity-often without even realizing that they are. Because they also lie to themselves. It is the political lie that gives their cause its life.
And sociopaths LOVE it when they lie and it works as it makes them feel like gods over men (and women).
Why, for example, if you were one of them, would you tell the truth? If you were serious about your role in humanity's vanguard, if you had the knowledge (which others did not), that you were certain would lead them to a better world, why would you tell them a truth that they could not "understand" and that would hold them back?
If others could understand your truth, you would not think of yourself as a "vanguard." You would no longer inhabit the morally charmed world of an elite, whose members alone can see the light and whose mission is to lead the unenlightened towards it. If everybody could see the promised horizon and knew the path to reach it, the future would already have happened and there would be no need for the vanguard of the saints.
That is both the ethical core and psychological heart of what it means to be a part of the left. That is where the gratification comes from. To see yourself as a social redeemer. To feel anointed. In other words: To be progressive is itself the most satisfying narcissism.
That is why it is of little concern to them that their socialist schemes have run aground, burying millions of human beings in their wake. That is why they don't care that their panaceas have caused more human suffering than all the injustices they have ever challenged. That is why they never learn from their "mistakes." That is why the continuance of Them is more important than any truth.
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a39611fde5615.htm
That in a nutshell is also putins attitude, and the attitude of every socialist leader. [but not the useful idiots that cant even hear them over their whole denial of what they are sayig!]
"No woman should be authorized to stay at home and raise her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have that choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one." -- Simone de Beauvoir, "Sex, Society, and the Female Dilemma" Saturday Review, June 14, 1975, p.18
"A world where men and women would be equal is easy to visualize, for that precisely is what the Soviet Revolution promised." - Simone de Beauvoir, The Second Sex (New York, Random House, 1952), p.806
And putin is doing the same for his groups… as are the others.
They are the vanguard, they are the dictators… you can see it if you don’t want to be fooled… however, socialism favors ideals over realism, and so you belive the ideals… not the reality.
Russia also does not need a tremendous military force any longer. Just enough to keep the potential agressors off.
What agresssors? Sweden has a lot more than russia… see anyone wanting to invade?
Russia is defunct with a demoralized peoples, and a economy that is in shambles from despotism, and the intrigues of their state services.
Gues what?
That is enough to chase most invaders away!!!! why take over the headaches, when there are many countries with much larger amounts of stuff that have NO MILITARY and are even more easily accessible?
That’s why the imperialism rhetoric is false and a lie and such… its just projecting what they would do if they were that big… not stemming from an analysis of actual actions!
So, Russia needs just a few good nukes and missiles and submarines to keep brave Yankees off. Which is quite affordable.
Yeah.. that’s why they have more than 5000 more nuclear bombs than the US. between 17000-23000 nuclear weapons (as they pretended to destroy some and ended up keeping them and not fulfilling the agreements they signed. So they may have even more of them!)
The US has less than 10,000
Meanwhile, when russia fell the US had a lot more military stuff, more missles, and had more capability to take over while russia was laid bare with its stomach unprotected.
So again… even you have the paranoia… when will the Yankees come… after all, in the past 100 years the US has invaded 1 country… russia has invaded more than 10, and kept them… murdered their people… divested them of their belongings.. and refused to let go till everything was in shambles… (meanwhile, do you wish to check out the status of the countries that America assisted at their invite? With the only invaded countries results still to be determined..
Here is a picture for you to look at..
It’s the results of communist invasion and take over… compared to American imperialism..
North and south korea sept 21 2003 (just after they set off a nuke. Something that a few of them are affordable, no?)
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2006/10/061011-d-6570c-001.jpg
take a long hard look at that image. The area with all the bright stuff is south korea.. it’s the night lights from the businesses, and streets and headlights, and so forth.
that dark area above it… with the lone light dot… that’s north korea.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/dprk/images/dprk-dmsp-dark.jpg
that’s an image that takes in more..
you can identify south korea by the same large white splotch…
if you didn’t know north korea was there, you would think it was ocean…
you can see south korea is all lit up… and to the riht of it, its another American oppressed nation… japan.. that area to the left is china now that they have ALLOWED some capitalism…
as you go up.. it gets dark again.. that’s the rest of china… BUT to the right of that is a dark area at the top of japan.. that used to be japans territory, but in the last 4 days of WWII stalin joined the war after it was over, and took those lands.. and so they went on the Russian plan, not the American plan.
So japan became a self determined economic giant… who controls them? the US does not keep places because the US is a true democratic republic, and so they have no real capability for such. its just not capable… if they arent ruthless enough to maintain a war and get it done, they sure arent enough to actually hold onto a country and deny its autonomy for more than half a century (like russia AND china).
http://dmsp.ngdc.noaa.gov/pres/low_light_120701/html/page1a.html
here you can see the same kind of thing centered on ITALY
remember, italy was socialist too… they lost… and the US rolled over them.. may I ask who runs the place now? and looking at the map… how are they doing compared to russia and other socialist states?
Well one only has to look to the right of them to see how other states run on ideology or religion fare..
here is the US… (tons of room!)
http://dmsp.ngdc.noaa.gov/pres/low_light_120701/html/page4.html
from such things you can tell a lot.. how much energy is being produced.. how cheap it is… how much urbanization.. and you can tell things over tiem by comparing images.
http://dmsp.ngdc.noaa.gov/pres/low_light_120701/html/page10.html
here is power consumption.. rather than take the propagandic look, realize that the reason the propaganda attacks it is because of socialist nature.
A socialist sees this and says, no one should have that.
And American sees this and says everyone should have that.
http://dmsp.ngdc.noaa.gov/pres/low_light_120701/html/page10.html
not only can you tell energy and power.. but all that gray… that’s areas where there are fewer people than 10 per square kilometer!!!!!!!
Don’t look that crowded does it? its not… that’s a lie too.. (Australia is almost all empty!!!)
Now note the dark blue… now note the green.. how many countries that are green passed through the hands of the US?
And note where the YELLOW is… the us has lots of green, but little yellow, and yet people complain about the energy use.. but if you look on the map, Europe uses a lot more!!! but you can also see that Europe that didn’t fall to the soviets is all green and yellow.. and the areas that fell to the soviets but not part of russia are blue and green spotted… and you can see right next to that that russia did a bit better.
That’s a testament to how Russians treated the satellites… and how it took or stole their wealth… however, you can see that even though there are bright spots its not coherent and such.. and if you take a closer look, you may realize that the Russians have been burning more lights to skew the results of satellite studies. (which is why its more haphazard).
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB13/ is a link to satellite imagery of the soviet union and areas of military interest (Which is why I know why the lights are like.. their industry is too small to have lights like the west for western reasons)
In February 1995, President Clinton signed an executive order that declassified those images
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB13/1.jpg is a bear runway in the 1960s… the satellite will tell you what our technology and knowledge was then…
care to guess it now?
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB13/2.jpg Moscow 1970 (kremlin enlarged)
notice that in the US we can go through this stuff… actually we can get stuff from france and other contries too… you only have to pay for the graphic.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB13/4.jpg
This 1984 computer enhanced KH-11 photo, taken at an oblique angle was leaked, along with two others, to Jane's Defence Weekly by naval intelligence analyst, Samuel Loring Morison. The image shows the general layout of the Nikolaiev 444 shipyard in the Black Sea. Under construction is a Kiev- class aircraft carrier (shown in the left side of the photo), then known as the Kharkov, along with an amphibious landing ship.
They even give a taste of more current systems
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB13/12.jpg Pre-strike assessment photograph of the Belgrade Army Garrison and headquarters, Serbia
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB13/13.jpg Post-strike damage assessment photograph of the Belgrade Army Garrison and Headquarters, Serbia, attacked during Operation Allied Force.
See how much we can tell? And these are degraded images.. in other words the real ones are much better detailed.
So there are lots of ways to verify who is lying, who is telling the truth… and whats going on.. and in the west, they are available to people for research and even putting up on the web.. (which makes them available to you I russia… which is why interenet is not exactly promoted as well)
Go to go.. you have wasted enough of my life..
I did this for the others that would read this and think your smarmy attitude and such might actually not be fluff and crap.
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