Publius Pundit

« Previous · Home · Next »

The Kremlin vs. The Blogosphere

Filed under: Russia

The Kremlin has declared total war on Russia's blogosphere, and right now a blogger is facing criminal prosecution and bankruptcy -- and, get this -- not even for blogging per se, but just for leaving a comment on another person's blog. My latest installment on Pajamas Media has the details of the Kremlin's final assault on the last vestiges of civil society in Russia. Check it out, and please consider leaving a comment in support of this besieged blogger and others like him who are struggling for survival in Russia. Any one of you who has left a comment on this blog, but for the grace of God, could be him.

Social Bookmarking:
Del.icio.us this del.icio.us | digg this digg | Add to Technorati technorati | StumbleUpon Toolbar stumble upon | Furl this furl | Reddit this reddit

Comments


really? says:

Maybe they'll shut this blog down? Would that they did


La Russophobe says:

Why, because it's the only way you and your ilk can win an argument?

The USSR tried to "win" that way. And look where it is now!


vova says:

"The USSR tried to 'win' that way. And look where it is now!" - Yes, they are baaack! QED.


misha says:

The United States is rather unique actually, in terms of the almost absolute protection that it affords free speech. But even in the United States speech is not absolute. The US Supreme Court famously said that one is not free to cry \"Fire!\" in a crowded theater. Many crimes are crimes of speech only (such as bomb threats, identity theft, inciting a riot, etc.) If one makes a false statement about another person (actual or corporate \"person\"), then one can be sued for liable or slander, to compensate for the damage done to the victim\'s repuation. So reasonable restrictions have always existed which prevent individuals from exercising absolute freedom of speech, even in the United States, and these restrictions have been upheld by American courts on numerous occasions.

America\'s Western European allies generally share the same basic values of democracy and the same high protection of civil liberties, including freedom of speech. But Europe often adds another level of restrictions on speech which are not found in the USA. For example, in Germany it is illegal to glorify the Nazis in any way or to deny that the holocaust took place (or to question the degree to which the holocaust took place). France also bans holocaust denial and recently added a law that bans questioning Turkey\'s alleged Armenian \"genocide.\" In these cases the authorities have established one \"official\" version of history, and free academic inquiry and free speech are not permitted to so much as question this interpretation.

In Great Britain there are very strong liable and slander laws. A person who says something bad about another person, which he cannot prove to be true, is thus fully responsible for the damage he does to the other person\'s reputation and he can be sued to the fullest extent of the law.

At the time of the American Revolution, the body of British Common Law was also adapted as American law. But slowly, over the years, American law has been amended more and more and it began to diverge from British law more and more. The American Supreme Court substantially weakened US slander and liable laws, when it ruled for example that satire is \"especially protected\" form of speech. (This a concept that is essentially unique to the United States in all the world.) The Court also ruled that public officials enjoy less protection than ordinary citizens in slander and liable proceedings, and again this is a unique US exception, not found in most other democratic western countries. in the UK, for example, public officials can and do sue people who say or print false and harmful things about them. The simple rule is that you are not allowed to say or publish something that harms the reputation of another person (public official or business leader or not), unless you can prove in court that what you said about him or her is true. So reasonable restrictions on speech are the norm in western democracy, and the more radical free speech interpretation in the US is somewhat out of the ordinary.

Because of Europe\'s diverse ethnic make-up, most European countries ban \"hate speech\" in many forms. I already mentioned the above bans on questioning the Holocaust, Armenian genocide, etc. The idea is that speech which is hateful is harmful to society, and one cannot expect such speech to be permitted, for the good of society. The US has no specific laws that ban hate speech, but the US does have laws which enhance the penalties for other crimes depending on speech. If a white beats a black man for stealing a turnip, and he says \"never steal a turnip from my patch,\" then it is simple assault. But if he says \"I hate you blacks\" while he beats him, then it turns into a hate crime, and adds 10 years to the prison sentence. (Note: the only difference is the words which were spoken, the speech.)

The Russian Federation absolutely reserves the full rights to herself, as a sovereign nation, to define her own conception of how to balance freedom of speech against the other needs of Russian society. Russia will not be lectured to by others in this regard.

Russia shares many of the same concerns which motivate other democratic countries to reject an absolutist conception of freedom of speech. Russia is a multi-ethnic multi-confessional federal republic, probably more so than any other nation in the world. For this reason Russia has strong prohibitions on hate speech, or speech designed to sew ethnic hatred or religious rivalry. Russia also prohibits individuals from slandering the good name and reputation of others (public officials or not). Any person who says or publishes malicious falsehoods about another person, which are not true and which he cannot prove, is thus subject to the full penalty of the law. It does not matter if he makes his hateful remarks in an internet blog or in a major newspaper. The same same law applies for everyone, and no one who spews hateful lies about someone else can pretend to be surprised when he is called to account for his misdeeds.


misha says:

In general a "crime" is defined as that which causes harm to another person. A Thief is a criminal becauase he denies the lawful owner the use and full enjoyment of his goods, as a vandal does also.

Slander and Liable are traditionally defined as crimes, because they also cause harm to other people. Here the damage is not done to someone's material goods, but rather to his reputation. As a person's repuation is perhaps his most valuable possession, this sort of crime is in many ways even more repugnant than that of the simple thief.

The tradition of defining slander as wrongdoing is deeply embedded in British Common Law and in the legal codes of all other Western countries.

The United States is somewhat of an exception, in that it has gradually weakened these legal protections in favor of a more absolutist interpretation of speech rights. In the US a person can say something hateful, which is blatenly untrue, and which is maliciously designed to cause harm to the reputation of the victim, so long as one is engages in "satire" or one is directing such remarks against a "public figure."

This exception does not exist in the legal codes on most other Western countries, where one is no more free to slander a public official than he is to steal his car or break into his house. Public officials do not enjoy a lower level of legal rights and legal protections than any other citizen enjoys.

Russia is under the rule of law, and this gentleman will not simply be hauled away in the middle of the night and put in Gulag. He will be hauled into court, before a judge and a jury of his peers, and confronted with the specific legal offenses that he is accused of committing. He only needs to prove that what he published was true, and not simply hateful and malicious slander, because "truth is an absolute defense to slander," in Russia as in the west.


vova says:

I wish the blog editor had a bot that would condense Nashi Misha's rants to two sentenses or less. I could never finish a single one.


Artfldgr says:

A long while back there was a article in press that pointed out the older russians were not getting on the net.

i said they werent because they know what will happen to them if they let the world know their minds.

now, the tightening has begun.
the loostening before...



elmer says:

Misha, you really are a stupid rooskie piece of shit.

First of all, the word is libel.

Second, the concept in the US is that political speech is protected. That includes opinions.

Third, the law recognizes a difference between facts and opinions, and between the sanctity of free political speech, and the the government may not prohibit freedom of the press or of speech, versus the necessity to protect private individuals from false accusations made against them by anyone else. And satire is a form of political speech which is protected.

And libel and slander are treated under the civil law, for the most part. Except, of course, in the swamp called roosha.

Fourth - the usual. "roosha will not be lectured by others."

Stated more accurately, the dumb fucks in roosha choose to remain dumb fucks.

Misha the rooshan apologist tries to glorify roosha by stating that people are not "hauled" into the gulag, they are "hauled" into court.

That's the whole point, dumb fuck. When one posts a political opinion, there is no need to "haul" anyone anywhere.

If someone says Vlad Dracul Putin is an ass hole, there is no need to "haul" anyone to either the gulag or the a show trial in a rooshan court before "hauling" that person off to the gulag.

Especially when the courts are a sham, as in roosha.

Shit for brains rooskies just don't get anything. They just spout more shit, and try to call it candy.


misha says:

I do know what I am talking about. The public encyclopedia Wikipedia has a good definition of slander and libel, which together can be combined into "defamation."

See the link here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation

As the Wikipedia article is in the public domain and non-copyrighted, I will give just a few excerpts from the lengthy article here:

"In German law, there is no distinction between libel and slander. Germany is a leader in Europe in enforcement of its defamation law... and lawsuits are increasing.[15] The relevant sections of Germany's law are §90 (Denigration of the President of State), §90a (Denigration of the State and its Symbols), §90b (Unconstitutional denigration of the Organs of the Constitution), §185 ("insult"), §186 (Defamation of character), §187 (Defamation with deliberate untruths), §188 (Political defamation with increased penalties for offending against paras 186 and 187), §189 (Denigration of a deceased person), §190 (Defamation by means of a non-proven criminal conviction), §192 ("insult" with true statements), §193 (Claim to defamation by rightful interests), §194 (The Application for a criminal prosecution under these paragraphs), §199 (Cases of exchange of verbal abuse), and §200 (Method of proclamation). Paragraph 188 has been criticized for allowing certain public figures additional protection against criticism."

Russia could simply adapt Germany's defamation law wholesale, and it would provide sufficient grounds to suppress all opposition to the Russian government (not only by civil means but by criminal means too).

Of course this is all by design, as we have not lost consciousness that the present German government is still the Anglo-American occupation government, which has occupied Western Germany (and now Eastern Germany too) since the end of the War in 1945.

It's only another example in the seemingly endless stream of examples of the west using a double (and a triple) standard in all things pertaining to Russia. It's all just bullshit, and transparently so!

But Russia is strong, not weak. You have never defeated Russia in a war, as you have Germany, and you are not entitled to "victor's privileges" in Russia. You cannot impose your laws or your ways on Russia, as she remains free to this day. (But if you want to I would invite you to just try and cross over the border of the Motherland. You will have your asses handed to you on a silver platter, just as every other would-be invader of Holy Mother Russia has before you!)


elmer says:

Shades of Krushchev! "Misha and roosha will bury you!"

Except that Krushchev didn't need no stinking oily orthodox mother roosha, he did it in the name of Saint Lenin and the Holy Word of Lenin. Of course, the rooshan oily orthodox church were all KGB at the time, anyway.

Misha, you really are a goddamn stupid rooskie shit for brain.

Do you have a shoe that you can pound on the table, like Krushchev?

It makes no difference - tsar, commissar, it's all the same shit in roosha.

What you overlooked in the article is the following little gem:

"There is a broader consensus against laws which criminalize defamation."

Citing to a bunch of sections from German law does not provide any understanding of what the German law is. It just gives the citations to sections of German law.

roosha has gone the Singapore route:

"Singapore has perhaps the world's strongest libel laws. The country's leaders have clearly indicated to the public that libel, as they choose to define it from time to time, on the Internet will not be tolerated and that those they deem responsible will be severely punished."


I have spoken with many immigrants from roosha. You know what they say?

The can breathe free air outside of roosha. It is noticeable, and it is joyous.

In roosha, they just breathe shit, and if anyone says so, Putin and his thugs arrest you for saying so.

And FREEDOM OF SPEECH is what makes a country strong - not throwing everyone in jail because they happen to express an opinion that Putin's sensitive little ego does not like.


vova says:

Happy Purim, Elmer.
Misha is a Nashi, and Nashi have been disposed of like a used condom, so he's morose. Have pity.


vova says:

Nashi Misha,
You obviously like German Law. Well, this is not in German, but the language is similar:
עס דרעק


misha says:

"Any one of you who has left a comment on this blog, but for the grace of God, could be him."

Yes, if any one of us was stupid enough to call for the assassination of public officials in an internet blog, as the hero of your article did, then not only could the same thing happen to us but the same thing (or something similar) most likely would happen; and it wouldn't matter whether we did so in Russia or the United States or any other country.


misha says:

There is nothing like a "universal" theory of free speech in the world. There are vast differences in practice and theory even between the western democracies themselves. I already gave a lot of examples above and I stand by everything I wrote.

(Notice that I made all my arguments without insulting anyone, and those would would "refute" me seem incapable of doing so without hurling ever manner of personal insult against me.)

Every nation must try to resolve the tension that exists between freedom of speech and other valid social objectives, and each nation takes its own approach. Russia for her part is free to adapt any combination of these existing western approaches or to develop her own unique approach as suits her. The constant pedantic lectures from certain quarters in the west accomplishes nothing whatsoever except to irritate and enrage the Russian people and to incite them against the very ideas that they are espousing. It's hardly necessary to point out the absurdity of a situation where country such as Germany, which has such severe restrictions on free speech and such a strong defamation law (and such a spotty history on human rights issues in general) criticizes or lectures Russia on the subject of free speech.

I do not need to cite German law to show that there are interpretations of defamation in the West which differ radically from the American interpretation (though German law certainly is an excellent example). I could have just as easily used British defamation law as an example too.

British common law presumes in the plaintiff's favor that the words [in suit] are false, unless and until the defendant proves the contrary. Along with the burden of proving truth comes the threat of being assessed with aggravated damages if the defendant's attempts to prove truth fails.

What this means is that in UK defamation cases there is a presumption of guilt. The defendant has the burden of proving that whatever he said or published about the plaintiff was true; and if he cannot prove that it was true, then he is presumed to have defamed the plaintiff. This is an extremely onerous legal burden and this is why plaintiffs in defamation cases usually prefer to file such cases in the UK if it is at all possible. (Many American celebrities have filed defamation cases in the UK against multinational media companies when the companies had significant assets in the UK, even when such cases could never have been filed in US courts.)

Furthermore, public officials may sue for libel under Britain's strict liability system. For example, British politicians, unlike American politicians, can file libel suits against reporters, publishers, etc. for misinformation.

Basically, the ethical and legal standard in the UK is that you must be certain that the negative information you wish to publish about someone is actually true before you publish it. If you neglect to do this--and there is no requirement to prove actual malice--then you are liable for defamation of the plaintiff. There is no exemption for "satire" and there is no distinction between public officials and ordinary citizens.

British law is much older and more established than American law; it is based on Roman law. In fact British Common Law was enacted by the US wholesale in the aftermath of the American Revolution (to prevent anarchy in the new republic). Only slowly did the US begin to deviate from British law, and only after US courts began to notice contradictions between the new US constitution and British law. However that may be, the Yanks have no basis for insisting that the British must adapt US law for Britain, and they have still less basis for trying to shove their American interpretations down Russia's throat.

Certainly there is a role in Russia for applying criminal law in certain cases involving speech, such as bomb threats, threats to assassinate public officials (or to kill or harm anyone really) and so forth. These types of restrictions are found in the laws of all countries, even the US. Beyond that there is also a role for criminal prosecutions in "hate speech" cases. Such laws are widespread in Europe (even going all the way to mandating certain historical and political interpretations to the exclusion of other interpretations, under threat of criminal punishment).

Russia is a multi-ethnic, multi-confessional state, and perhaps the most diverse state in the world. Therefore Russia considers restrictions on hate speech to be essential. One is not free in Russia to goad or provoke members other ethnic groups or religions. Such hate speech cannot be defined as legitimate political or social discourse, that ought to be subject to legal protection. So the criminal law can and must be used to restrict such expressions of hate, as is also commonly done in Europe.

Beyond criminal restrictions on speech, such as those mentioned above (which are common in all western democratic countries), there are also civil restrictions under the area of defamation. It should surprise no one that Russia would chose to adapt the British or Western European model for its defamation laws, rather than the American model. The European interpretation is more in keeping with the Russian culture and Russian national character. Most Russians do not think it is proper for a citizen to slander or defame another person, including a public official, and the Russian people are certainly not in the streets clamoring for such spurious "rights" (other than a very small minority, and we all know who they are, as they make themselves so obvious by their constant--almost farcical by now--efforts to transform Russia into "democracy" which is ruled by a tiny minority of its citizens. But such people harbor ideologies so alien to any genuinely Russian ones that they may as well hail from another planet).

Russia is a sovereign country, and Russia will chart its own path forward. You may not like it, but from where I sit it looks like their is precious little you can do about it. Certainly some Western concepts and principles are useful to Russia, and Russia is not above borrowing and adapting such ideas when they are useful for Russia. But Russia will not be lectured to (or still less be dictated to) by those who claim that their own particular ideologies and interpretations have some sort of "universal" validity, which everyone else on the planet must accept. That after all was the primary sin of Adolph Hitler and all those who thought like him throughout history.

It is not necessary to throw people in jail for defaming others, as civil prosecutions can be just as effective, as the application of defamation law in the UK makes clear. A large court-ordered monetary defamation judgment must be paid, and when it is not paid then the plaintiff has the right to follow up with court-ordered asset seizures (aggressively seizing real estate, vehicles, computers, bank accounts, etc.) You will say that such laws in Russia could only be a cloak for something sinister or nefarious, forgetting that such is the standard in most of the western world. In fact such laws only impose one requirement, which is in keeping with good ethical and journalistic principles in any case, and that is that one should not publish or say something which causes harm to the reputation of another person unless he is sure that it is true. In Russia, as in other countries, those who are able to meet this common-sense burden are legally free (under civil and criminal law) to publish any information they want, against President Putin or anyone else in Russia.


elmer says:

Misha, you really are the goddamndest stupidest shit-for-brain rooskie I have ever seen, and you just continue to demonstrate it more and more and more.

In a civil case, there is no presumption of guilt. Maybe in roosha that is the case, but in Britain, there is no concept of "guilt" or "innocence" in a civil case.

One is either liable or not liable, and certain presumptions may apply.

Now, you don't cite any proposition for a "presumption of guilt" in civil cases under British law, and it is clear that you have no idea what you are talking about.

And in a civil case, the plaintiff is not the government, and people don't get arrested - like they do in roosha.

Political opinions and political speech is protected above all.

FREEDOM OF SPEECH is a simple concept, Misha.

You can try to spew all the shit you want, the fact remains - in civilized democratic countries, people don't go to jail for expressing their political opinions.

In roosha, you can't say anything, not even on the Internet, without going to jail.

You're the one that has to live with that, Misha, not people in the West.

People in the West breathe free air.

In roosha, people like you breathe shit - and try to justify it.

Be my guest, stupid rooskie.

Keep on breathing shit.


vova says:

"Yes, if any one of us was stupid enough to call for the assassination of public officials in an internet blog"

A stormtrooper in the service of an illegitimate fascist regime is neither a public official nor a human, just like a blood-sucking tick, so you deal with him accordingly.


really? says:

does kim understand the concept of freedom of speach? apparently not, because she constantly deletes comments that she disagrees with


elmer says:

On this blog, the worst thing that happens is that you have your comment deleted.

That's the right of a private person owning the blog.

You can then go somewhere else to post whatever nonsense you want.

You don't get arrested, you don't get prosecuted, you don't get put in jail.

In roosha, when Putin or his henchmen feel that their silly little egos are being threatened, you get arrested and put in jail for posting on a blog.

That's the big difference in the concept of free speech, that rooskies just don't seem to get.

At the core of freedom of speech is that the government has no right to restrict it - not even speech that is critical of the government.

Otherwise, you get what existed during the Stalin era - the "whisperers" of 2 kinds -

shepchushchii, the ones who whisper out of fear of being overheard

and

sheptun - the one who tattles or informs on other people to the authorities


It is incredible and amazing to me that rooskies, who have already been through repression of free speech, try to justify it today with silly rationalizations designed only to protect Vlad Dracul Putin's silly little fragile ego.

I wonder - have rooskies ever heard the following famous saying, and if they have, do they understand it:


"I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."


misha says:

Be my guest, stupid rooskie."

So you are going to go away now, back to your corner where you belong? You are not going to obsess over Russia any longer, the country that you claim you hate but about which you are obsessed?

We can just agree to disagree then? Russia can stay just the way I like it and I can be your guest?

Somehow I don't believe you.


elmer says:

Oh, geez, mishka, you really, really are the goddamndest stupid shit-for-brain rooskie, and you keep proving it.

The historical fact is that Russia has already suffered the worst form of terror and suppression of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and other freedoms that the world has ever seen.

And you want to take a blind stab at being clever by misconstruing the phrase "be my guest, stupid rooskie."

You're like the guy who jumps off the skyscraper to his death, and on his way down says "so far, so good."

You should take a look at this report of travel across roosha - especially Chita, Blagoveshchensk, and Vladivostok.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/f85a7b48-dd8c-11dc-ad7e-0000779fd2ac.html

Maybe someday you'll get that protecting Vlad Dracul's silly fragile little ego is not the point of life.






Post a comment


(will not be published)



Remember Me?

(you may use HTML tags for style)




TrackBack

TrackBack URL: http://publiuspundit.com/mt/contages.cgi/714